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gigag04 wrote:I'm surprised no one is driving over the BGs. Depending on where they where this may be a great tactic. A car is a great weapon against two assailants, and at this point DF would be a reasonable choice.

Added bonus: You're already in the carwash so you can clean the blood off the front bumper.

I'd be worried about using a car due to the potential for them to shove the victim in the path of your car.

I'm more accurate with a 230 grain bullet than I am with a 3300 lbs brick.

UPDATE......


My co-worker got everything but her money back yesterday . A guy driving south on 35 at Everman pkwy watched someone in front of him toss a purse out of the window while going down the hiway. he stopped and picked up, then took it to the everman PD . he did NOT get any vehicle info

Richland Hills PD did call her back and said they did NOT get any usable finger prints from her car

+1 on Sitting nearby and honking.
Reminds me, I need to put a rifle back in the car.

sgerry wrote:Honk, Draw the muzzle away from the woman- while calling 911 on the bluetooth connection

Draw if necessary. Shoot if required.

Draw first; you can maintain concealment of a weapon in-hand inside a vehicle pretty easily, and if you don't he's way ahead of you in the action when he turns around.

I don't really have a good place for a long gun in my vehicle, but I have been thinking about a holster under the seat for my Blackhawk. I sighted it in at 50-75yds for deer season, (6" steel target) and that should be plenty for any realistic 3rd-party defensive use. Even better, it shares ammo (.357) with my primary carry gun.

Purplehood wrote:

SQLGeek wrote:So to throw another hypothetical on this. What if one of you is in your truck/car when you see this and just happen to have a truck/car rifle within grabbing distance?

Than I might actually hit what I am aiming at. I suck with the pistol.

I'm with you on that one.

Don't honk. Remember they don't pay you to fight fair, heck they don't pay you.... You are not the police nor are you required to follow their rules of engagement. The reason I say this is this incident in Miami a while back. http://www.usacarry.com/forums/general- ... oting.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; My brother-in-law knows the good guy's dad. He confronted the robber and the robber acted, and he had to react and he had not taken cover when he confronted the crook. Crook is dead but he was severely injured. Remember, just what are you going to do if he hears you honk and he shoots the robbery victim, then starts shooting at you. Just shoot him until he is no longer a threat.

Never give up the advantage of surprise. Once you do decide to use deadly force, do so with extreme violence. Remember that second place in this situation sucks!

The rule, so I read, in medicine is "First, do no harm". Don't turn a robbery into a kidnapping, murder.

My thinking is to
1.) call 911
2.) while talking to 911 take as good a defensive position as time and circumstances permit
3.) anything else starts happening to the victim, engage, draw attention, whatever it takes to get them to leave her alone and come at you
4.) take care of business as best you can
5.) don't let them leave the car wash with her in the car
6.) don't let them do any more than take the money and run, but you can always get more money

them's my thoughts, I'm sure there are other ways to go at this.

ddurkof wrote:Don't honk. Remember they don't pay you to fight fair, heck they don't pay you.... You are not the police nor are you required to follow their rules of engagement. The reason I say this is this incident in Miami a while back. http://www.usacarry.com/forums/general- ... oting.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; My brother-in-law knows the good guy's dad. He confronted the robber and the robber acted, and he had to react and he had not taken cover when he confronted the crook. Crook is dead but he was severely injured. Remember, just what are you going to do if he hears you honk and he shoots the robbery victim, then starts shooting at you. Just shoot him until he is no longer a threat.

Never give up the advantage of surprise. Once you do decide to use deadly force, do so with extreme violence. Remember that second place in this situation sucks!

Simple rule; If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck. (blatantly stolen line from thunder ranch)

I could never just stand by, take plate numbers etc. and do nothing. My CHL is not a Batman license but I would have tried to help her before I got the license, and the license does not require me to change my nature. If someone had intervened to help the first woman maybe she would not have taken as bad of a beating.

ddurkof wrote:Never give up the advantage of surprise. Once you do decide to use deadly force, do so with extreme violence. Remember that second place in this situation sucks!

THIS!

I'm hoping to dissuade the “snipers” in this situation.
First, I think it is unrealistic to think you will be close enough to the situation to 1) ascertain that a crime is actually in progress, then 2) retreat to a safe position, some 50 to 100 yards away, 3) make it to the trunk of your car or even pull the rifle from beside you 4) set up for a shot and actually have time to do all of this before the BG is back in the car and leaving.
Second, assuming you could do all of this in time, how does it look for someone (LEO, other CCW holder) if they do not see the crime but are able to see you pointing a rifle in a city environment? I’m afraid Batman may end up getting shot here just as easily as the BG.
I'm just saying...

I'm with grayghost here.
Problem one:
Police received 4 911 calls. Now, you're standing 100 yards away getting ready to take your shot....po-po come roaring up and see you, with a rifle. You've just broken the information chain for that officer. He will zero in on you, and while he's figuring your situation out, the perp may have time to make an escape or kill the victim.
Problem two:
Grabbing your rifle from standoff distance makes you removed from the flow of information of what is happening. You see a black guy holding a gun on a white woman. Ingrained stereotypes may take over from here. We all have them, whether we admit it or not.
You REALLY do not know what is going on. Pure and simple. Are you sure you're not shooting an undercover cop? CHL holder who's defending himself against a crazy ex wife with a knife?
Problem three:
Lets say it is just as cut and dry as it looks. Maybe you witness the whole thing going down. Man has woman at gunpoint. Read the information we were given by the OP. There are two perps. Does the other perp have a gun? You are entering a 1 v 2 situation. This ain't TV. This ain't the gun range. This is a gunfight, on the street, with two presumably hardened and armed criminals. They've probably shot at and maybe killed someone before. They've been shot at. They do not value human life the same way you do. Have you cleared the other car wash stalls? There might be more perps. Maybe it quickly turns into a 1 v 3 (or more) situation.


If, and its a big if, I were to directly intervene, my first aim will be to take control of the situation. If I can gain a tactical advantage with hardened cover that still gives me the opportunity to move and shoot, I would use my command voice to get control of the weapon-holder and all involved. If the weapon gets pointed at me, . A movement towards the woman? But the woman isn't off the hook, either. Who the hell is she? Is she a victim or the actual perp? But you just don't know what's going on when you approach the situation. All you know is that a man has a gun on a woman.

My plan of action in a situation like the one laid out is to be prepared to intervene, be on the phone with the police, and be a good witness. Begin searching for the tactical advantage to end the situation. Checking my 6 to make sure that I don't become a victim.

I'm a parent and a husband, though. I don't have the luxury of playing cowboy.
It sucks, and I'd probably never sleep again if I let something happen to that woman. But, I also can't imagine my children finding out daddy ain't coming home.

rthillusa wrote:The rule, so I read, in medicine is "First, do no harm". Don't turn a robbery into a kidnapping, murder.

My thinking is to
1.) call 911
2.) while talking to 911 take as good a defensive position as time and circumstances permit
3.) anything else starts happening to the victim, engage, draw attention, whatever it takes to get them to leave her alone and come at you
4.) take care of business as best you can
5.) don't let them leave the car wash with her in the car
6.) don't let them do any more than take the money and run, but you can always get more money

them's my thoughts, I'm sure there are other ways to go at this.

Sound thinking. It is great to game these things out in advance, before real life jumps up and gets you killed.