8 dead, 44 wounded in Chicago this weekend

[wgoforth]

The death penalty makes no demonstrable difference.
- Jim

It makes a huge difference on the part of the one RECEIVING the death penalty...that is, they won't do it again.

[Fangs]

Check out the response after the Supreme Court lifted Chicago's 28-year handgun ban:

City Hall could limit number of guns allowed in a home

From the article above:

“Reducing the number of handguns in Chicago is critical to public safety,” Georges said. “Handguns are overwhelmingly the cause of firearm deaths and injuries in Chicago. Handguns were used in 402 of 412 firearms homicides in Chicago in 2008. That’s 98 percent of the firearms homicides.”

All those handgun-caused deaths while handguns were entirely illegal? Why is this so hard for people to get?

[seamusTX]

It's the ancient false belief that legislation can control human behavior. It cannot, except at the margins (insider trading or tax evasion, for example). The law can only punish.

Most positions on the political spectrum adhere to this belief. Only the libertarians and anarchists understand.

- Jim

[KD5NRH]

“Reducing the number of handguns in Chicago is critical to public safety,” Georges said. “Handguns are overwhelmingly the cause of firearm deaths and injuries in Chicago. Handguns were used in 402 of 412 firearms homicides in Chicago in 2008. That’s 98 percent of the firearms homicides.”

All those handgun-caused deaths while handguns were entirely illegal? Why is this so hard for people to get?

More to the point, I notice they specify firearms homicides rather than murders. I wonder how much of that is because handguns are by far the most commonly used defensive weapons.

[seamusTX]

More to the point, I notice they specify firearms homicides rather than murders. I wonder how much of that is because handguns are by far the most commonly used defensive weapons.

The medical examiner rules whether a human death is a homicide, suicide, or accident.

Only a grand jury or court can determine whether a homicide is murder, manslaughter, or justified.

In a city like Chicago, most homicides other than domestics are unsolved. Corpses turn up at dawn, or people are killed by unidentified robbers or drive-by shooters. Most are murders by any definition. You can verify this information by a simple web search.

Even in a place like Texas where law-abiding citizens can legally carry firearms, maybe 1% of homicides are self-defense.

- Jim

[Fangs]

I would assume that most are murders because it was illegal to own a handgun for self defense. So not many law abiding people carrying guns = most shootings being gang/thug related. In my mind anyway.

[seamusTX]

So not many law abiding people carrying guns = most shootings being gang/thug related.

Bear with me a minute here.

Of course most shootings are murder or manslaughter. That is true everywhere.

The number of people legally carrying handguns in Texas is around 1% of the population, and aside from LEOs they rarely fire a shot in justifiable self defense.

It would be a mistake to think that otherwise law-abiding people in Illinois do not carry. They do. The number is unknowable, but I would not be surprised if it were 1%.

Also, since carrying a weapon illegally is a felony and severely prosecuted in many jurisdictions, some police officers have developed selective vision and memory problems. I'm just saying.

- Jim

[seamusTX]

This story is a follow-up to a different bloody weekend in Chicago, but the observations are relevant:

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/2530 ... 10.article" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Very few perpetrators are caught, let alone convicted. Those who go to prison are out soon if they go along with the system.

- Jim

[chasfm11]

The part that I'm missing is where are all of the prosecutions based on Chicago's absurd gun laws? They put the laws in places supposedly to keep guns off the street. So, have they never caught any of the gang-bangers with guns on them? If they did, why weren't they prosecuted? Why aren't the politicians taking a victory lap for having locked up another gang-banker for gun possession?

Could it be that the only ones that they want to prosecute under their gun laws are normally law abiding citizens who want to try to defend themselves against the chaos/anarchy? Or do the gangbangers just hire better lawyers?

[seamusTX]

As usual, there are several aspects to this issue:

• It's not that easy to catch someone in possession of a weapon. The police need probable cause for a search. They can't just stop every guy with droopy pants.
• Criminals who are in possession of a weapon or other contraband will run and dump the illegal item in a trash can or down a drain.
• It's rumored that some criminals use young children as "runners" to carry contraband. A child who is caught is treated as a minor and faces no serious punishment. (I don't know how often this really happens. I'm inclined to think it's an urban legend.)
• Even when caught red-handed, criminals take a plea bargain and often are sentenced to probation and time served before trial. They consider it a cost of doing business.
• No matter how many offenders are locked up, a new crop of youngsters is on the way. Many serious offenses are committed by children as young as 10.

I just did a quick search for "Chicago prosecution illegal weapon" and came up with this item from this week:
http://chicago.fbi.gov/pressrel/pressrel10/cg072210.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Over two dozen gangsters arrested for gun-running and drug dealing. Should be the end of crime in Chicago, right? They will all be back on the street in a couple of years unless they get themselves killed in prison.

- Jim

[cheezit]

its a place Ive always wanted to see but never go to. figure that one out

[chasfm11]

Over two dozen gangsters arrested for gun-running and drug dealing. Should be the end of crime in Chicago, right? They will all be back on the street in a couple of years unless they get themselves killed in prison.
- Jim

Thanks for the information and for the link. If I read the potential sentences, they are 10 years for felony gun possession and 10 years for the drug possession. I've never understood the logic of the judges in making those sentences concurrent and then allowing parole for a fraction of the time served.

I wonder what would happen to you or I if we were found in Chicago on the streets with an unlicensed (by their standards) handgun. Assuming we survived prison, I suspect we'd be there for the full duration of the sentence.

The LEOs that aren't corrupt in Chicago have got to be really frustrated.

[seamusTX]

I wonder what would happen to you or I if we were found in Chicago on the streets with an unlicensed (by their standards) handgun. Assuming we survived prison, I suspect we'd be there for the full duration of the sentence.

That's not how it worked when I lived there. They don't generally put working taxpayers in prison.

If a person who was not actually committing a crime or a known gang member was caught with a weapon, he would be arrested, of course, then caught up in the legal system for several years, costing him about the price of a new BMW in legal fees and fines. He would never see his weapon again, unless it was introduced as evidence at a trial. He would be very lucky to plead to a misdemeanor rather than found guilty of a felony.

I knew only one guy who was accused of illegally carrying a weapon in Illinois—in Lake County, not in Chicago. That was about the treatment that he got. He didn't tell me all the details.

- Jim

[seamusTX]

This article is by a man who is supposed to be a Chicago police officer:
http://www.examiner.com/x-10377-Chicago ... oting-stop" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The problem of gang retribution is a real, serious problem.

I only say "supposed to be" because I don't know whom to believe these days.

- Jim