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duggy wrote:Pistol rounds speed up considerably and pack a lot more punch when shot from a 16" barrel.

Just as a quick reference, from the May 2010 American Rifleman is an article on Ruger 327 revolvers. At the end of the article is the usual 'Shooting Results (25 Yds.)" table. However this time there are two pistols so you get to see the difference in a 5.5" barrel on the Ruger Blackhawk and the 4.2" barrel on the GP100 for four different types of ammo. I'll just pick one type from the table as an example - American Eagle No. AE327 100-Gr JSP:

Vel at 10' and energy for the 5.5" = 1725 fps and 660 ft-lbs
Vel at 10' and energy for the 4.2" = 1580 fps and 554 ft-lbs

This just a 1.3" difference.

Maybe there a few of the CHLforum members that know how to access specific ballistic data for different barrel lengths.

I like the idea of a pistol carbine for home defense because they have more power than pistols in the same caliber, you can shoot them very precisely (even under pressure), have lots of shots in reserve with a large capacity mag, and you don't have to worry about shooting through multiple walls (like with a .223/5.56). And the CX4 is great choice.

Careful here. LE tests show that the light and fragile .223 stops more quickly in less wallboard than the standard LE pistol calibers. 9mm zips through wallboard just fine.

When my son was in college, the guy in the next apartment was in the basic police academy. He violated a few of the 4 rules and discharged a hollow point 9mm round which zipped through both sides of the wall which separated the apartments, ricocheted off the ceiling in my son's living room, penetrated both sides of the wall in an adjoining closet, and came to rest inside.

Excaliber wrote:When my son was in college, the guy in the next apartment was in the basic police academy. He violated a few of the 4 rules and discharged a hollow point 9mm round which zipped through both sides of the wall which separated the apartments, ricocheted off the ceiling in my son's living room, penetrated both sides of the wall in an adjoining closet, and came to rest inside.

It didn't pause to admire the china on its way through?

I have a Sterling 9mm carbine by Wiselite. It is a lot of fun. It is as heavy as an AR because of the long barrel, but if I were to go through the paperwork and make it a SBR, then I am sure it would be much lighter and handier.

I use my AR in 9 mm the most out of many rifles I have. I have used it on animals from snakes to hog and it has done the job. Working and driving at night I occasionally need to finish off things I hit. The suppressor and 147 grain ammo is not going to wake any one up in a rural area for sure. Also allows me to practice at home in the dark whenever I want. Even with 200 acres, 200 rounds of 5.56 even suppressed are going to piss off the neighbors at 10:00 PM.

With the Aimpoint I feel comfortable with well aimed vital area shots to 50 yds on anything big where 9mm is questionable. With reloads or bulk boxed rounds the cost to operate is very low. I also have a dedicated small 22LR AR suppressed but it has basically no recoil and doesn’t feel right to practice with only. The 9mm also functions almost identically as far as reloading and malfunction clearing as the normal AR unlike the normal 22LR AR.

The 9mm is relatively low powered for self defense or medium game hunting, but for me the 9mm with suppressor is small enough to carry in a car and offers much better accurate and rapid fire than my handgun.

If I shoot home invaders, I don't mind my neighbors calling the cops.

SigOperator02 wrote:I think it is something to really look into. I mean let say there is civil unrest or natural disaster that happens and you are unable to more of .223 ammo, you can always use the handgun ammo for both.

This is a idea that was brought up on Best Defense Survival also. I totally agree with this idea as well.

I think one thing that we are forgetting is that we assume that we are always going to be able to have access to our rifle ammo. But what if there is a major natural disaster, civil unrest or something else that prevents us from getting our ammo. I think it would be a great worst case scenario carbine because you can use your carbine and handgun with the same ammo. Always be prepaired I say.

Excaliber wrote:Careful here. LE tests show that the light and fragile .223 stops more quickly in less wallboard than the standard LE pistol calibers. 9mm zips through wallboard just fine.

+1 for this. Any round will penetrate at least one wall, and any round sufficient for self-defense will penetrate multiple walls. You need to know what angles in your house are safe to shoot and which are not--ie make sure a miss doesn't go zipping into an occupied bedroom.

.223 may be less likely to continue going once it goes through a bad guy as compared to pistol rounds--this is due to the velocity difference. The light, fast .223 bullet is famous for tumbling and fragmenting inside the body. The heavier, slower pistol bullets won't do this and thus may be more likely to exit. That risk can of course be reduced by using quality hollowpoints, but most entry teams have moved away from pistol-caliber SMGs to rifle-caliber carbines for this reason (plus other advantages).

SigOperator02 wrote:I think one thing that we are forgetting is that we assume that we are always going to be able to have access to our rifle ammo. But what if there is a major natural disaster, civil unrest or something else that prevents us from getting our ammo. I think it would be a great worst case scenario carbine because you can use your carbine and handgun with the same ammo. Always be prepaired I say.

What makes you think you'll be able to get pistol ammo but not rifle ammo? And why didn't you stock up before, like with food and water and other disaster supplies? Always be prepaired, right/

I guess if you are just getting started and you only own two guns, you could make a case for both using the same ammo. But you should still stock up.

Thunder08 is right. One, two, or twenty guns won't do much good if you don't have ammo. The type (rifle or pistol) that will be available to you is the type that you stocked up on.

When you consider the cost to stock up. 9mm starts to make a lot sense.

Also, pistol ammo is physically smaller and weighs less than rifle ammo, so you should be capable of carrying more of it.

Practicality counts only so much before "I gots ta have it" kicks in.

I have been waiting years for Hi Point to finally give birth to their .45 carbine. They have just issued a press release today announcing its arrival. I have a Hi Point .45JHP and the .45 carbine will be a welcome addition.

The carbine will be my third gun in .45 which will be nice for reloading. I am limiting the number of calibers I have to reload or stock. So far .45, .223, and 9x18 (9mm Makarov). My brother-in-laws have several dozen guns each in nearly as many calibers. I prefer to have a substantial stock of ammo for each caliber, where they have only a box or two.

I bought one of the Ruger PC9 carbines years ago. Love it. Accurate and fun to shoot.

Not quite pistol caliber, but I like carbines with "history." Also can load a 30 rd mag too