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HLs get more good reviews than MSA because they are cheaper, and thus have a larger market share.


To each his own though - HLs aren't bad at all. The Sordins I've ran are amazing, and have the NR where you don't need the surefire plugs inside (how I usually run Peltors)

Huh?? What?? Thought I heard something...

RECIT wrote:On a side note I wish there was an indoor range in Houston that let rifles come out to play.

The Arms Room in League City allows .30 and under, and you can rent machine guns. A bit of a drive from your area though.

For plug style protection (which I use in addition to muffs due to hearing damage from not using enough protection as I should have) I use the Silent Ear gel filled plugs. They're far more comfortable than foam types, are reusable, and carry a Noise Reduction Rating of 32 - far better than most muff style protectors.

The Noise Reduction Rating system is not the best, but it's what most manufacturers use to rate their muffs. Details on why it's not quite as simple as it sounds can be found here.

The Earplug Store also carries multiple lines of muff style protectors. Links can be found here.

I've been looking at their Pro Ears electronic model that carries a Noise Reduction Rating of 33 - far better than most other electronic sets. They're not cheap, but neither is significant hearing loss. I haven't used these yet, but I'm thinking about buying a set when the budget allows. I'd like to hear user experience from anyone who has used them. Details can be found here.

Hoi Polloi wrote:I am so frustrated with the cheap plugs we have. Will you please recommend some good hearing protection?

I want it to be good quality for the price, comfortable, and effective.

Recommendations in any price range that meets the above (and a comment about it being budget-minded or top-of-the-line, etc) would be appreciated.

I haven't read over all the responses.

If you are going to go to the range more than once, definitely switch to the muffs from the plugs. 'Twill make all the difference. You'll be glad you did.

I've read all the responses and have passed them on to my husband.

I am leaning toward a gel-insert (that sounds more comfortable and easy to put in than foam) with a low-cost electronic muff. That would give me the protection I need in addition to the benefit of hearing instructions when needed without the high cost of the good stuff.

Any other input is appreciated!

Charles L. Cotton wrote:I am sold on the Howard Leight Impact Sport electronics. They are the most comfortable muffs I've ever worn. Unlike most muffs, they have a flat spot on top of the headband that keeps them from feeling like you are wearing a vice on your head. I shot the IDAP match at The Arms Room last Monday and had them on constantly for 3 hrs. and they were beginning to be uncomfortable. All of the other muffs I've had would have been torture by that time.

I found some on Amazon.com for just under $50. I paid about $60 at Academy.

Chas.

http://www.amazon.com/Howard-Leight-R-0 ... B001T7QJ9O" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I am with Charles on these. I also use these and they are comfortable, seem to protect very well and the hearing people talk is really good too.

Gary

As a side note, I was at the Sam's Club on Ohio in north Plano and they have a hearing aid sales booth there. Noticed the display cabinet had some ear muffs in it, and they also had the custom molded ear plugs available with a $49 price tag hanging on the display. Didn't have time to look in detail or talk to them, but that is not a bad deal if you are looking for those. Not sure if other clubs have them or if it is just this one Sam's hearing aid center.

Hoi Polloi wrote:I've read all the responses and have passed them on to my husband.

I am leaning toward a gel-insert (that sounds more comfortable and easy to put in than foam) with a low-cost electronic muff. That would give me the protection I need in addition to the benefit of hearing instructions when needed without the high cost of the good stuff.

Any other input is appreciated!

I have only a rudimentary understanding of sound absorption and I may be incorrect, but I understand, that when using combinations (i.e. earplugs and muffs) you will only get a small improvement in the noise reduction of the better protection device. If you use a muff with a 25 NRR (Noise Reduction Ratio) and plugs with 21 NRR, your total NRR is about 26 or 27. And a 21 NRR Muff with a 27 NRR plug will give you about 29 NRR. A 21/21 combination might net you a 25 NRR. Whereas you can buy either one, at an increased price, with a higher NRR rating such as 31. These numbers are not necessarily accurate, just estimates.
Now as far as combinations with electronic muffs (which are designed to eliminate specific frequencies, not all frequencies) would probably defeat the overall purpose. That is, the sounds allowed to pass the electronic muffs would be reduced by the plugs, but would only provide minimum improvement for the blocked sounds.
I just think if you are gettting electronic muffs, it's a waste of time to use the combined protection.

O6nop wrote:

Hoi Polloi wrote:I've read all the responses and have passed them on to my husband.

I am leaning toward a gel-insert (that sounds more comfortable and easy to put in than foam) with a low-cost electronic muff. That would give me the protection I need in addition to the benefit of hearing instructions when needed without the high cost of the good stuff.

Any other input is appreciated!

I have only a rudimentary understanding of sound absorption and I may be incorrect, but I understand, that when using combinations (i.e. earplugs and muffs) you will only get a small improvement in the noise reduction of the better protection device. If you use a muff with a 25 NRR (Noise Reduction Ratio) and plugs with 21 NRR, your total NRR is about 26 or 27. And a 21 NRR Muff with a 27 NRR plug will give you about 29 NRR. A 21/21 combination might net you a 25 NRR. Whereas you can buy either one, at an increased price, with a higher NRR rating such as 31. These numbers are not necessarily accurate, just estimates.
Now as far as combinations with electronic muffs (which are designed to eliminate specific frequencies, not all frequencies) would probably defeat the overall purpose. That is, the sounds allowed to pass the electronic muffs would be reduced by the plugs, but would only provide minimum improvement for the blocked sounds.
I just think if you are gettting electronic muffs, it's a waste of time to use the combined protection.

I'm not a sound engineer either. While I would agree that you can't add the NRR ratings of muffs and plugs and arrive at a valid figure, from a user perception standpoint there is a very significant improvement in protection when using muffs and high NRR plugs together over just using either one alone.

I very seriously doubt I could distinguish the difference if the NRR improvement from using both was an increment of only 1 or 2. My muffs are rated at NRR 33, and using them alone is not nearly as comfortable as using them with the gel plugs too.

Excaliber wrote:I'm not a sound engineer either. While I would agree that you can't add the NRR ratings of muffs and plugs and arrive at a valid figure, from a user perception standpoint there is a very significant improvement in protection when using muffs and high NRR plugs together over just using either one alone.

Amazing coincidence, but I am not a sound engineer either. I do have some experience in measuring sound levels. First, when measuring sound levels, calibrated microphones are used to pick up the sound. Since microphones are not human ears, measured sound levels will be different from you perceive. Second, precision testing also requires that testing is performed in sound proof rooms that have extremely low noise levels. These are entirely different conditions from where you will actually use the product.

Third, you also have to realize that when manufacturers do tests, they can pick the measuring equipment, test enviroment and test setups to optimize the final test results to make their particular product look good.

A good analogy is when someone wants to purchase a high-end sound system. They will spend months reading and comparing the spec sheets for all of their components so they can try to figure out how to to optimize their system to get the ultimate in sound quality. What actually happens is that they use the spec sheets and their wallets to narrow down their choices. They always make their final choice by listening with their own ears.

Practically speaking, I use Peltor brand muffs. I used them at work and liked them so I bought a pair. I always bring a pair of ear plugs with me, but the only time I feel the need to use them as a supplement to the muffs is when I am shooting on a shooting line that has baffles and/or someone is shooting a hand cannon such as a .44Mag or a "high-powered" rifle such as a .300 Win Mag. For me it is more of the concussion of the shock wave more than the sound level that bothers me.

Eventually I will buy some, but I don't own a pair of electronic muffs. On a couple occasions I have borrowed them. They are very good to have when you are taking training and have to hear instructions, such as the CHLForum clinics. I am pretty sure that the pair I used was not high end - just a regular pair sold at Academy. They seemed to work fine.

Mastodon wrote:

Hoi Polloi wrote:I am so frustrated with the cheap plugs we have. Will you please recommend some good hearing protection?

I want it to be good quality for the price, comfortable, and effective.

Recommendations in any price range that meets the above (and a comment about it being budget-minded or top-of-the-line, etc) would be appreciated.

I haven't read over all the responses.

If you are going to go to the range more than once, definitely switch to the muffs from the plugs. 'Twill make all the difference. You'll be glad you did.

Not all muffs are equal. It may have been mentioned, but a lot of the muffs at the local stores are pretty poor sound reduction ratings. On the other hand, a lot of the soft foam plugs are rated at 30 or more. I do agree that some of those plugs are extremely uncomfortable and scratch your ear. Since I wear plugs all the time at work, I knew what I liked and went to the local industrial supply store and bought a big box for $25 that has something like 200 pairs instead of what most stores carry.
http://www.labsafety.com/search/ear+plugs/24532223/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

When I used to shoot at indoor ranges regularly, I doubled up with plugs and muffs. IMO, it made a big difference. Now that I mostly shoot at an outdoor range, I find doubling up is only necessary when people are shooting close by.

Absolutely, the wearer should use whatever is comfortable. I'm just offering options and food for thought for selection. But as far as hearing protection, there are standards, ANSI, ASA, CSA, OSHA and the like. The testing equipment has to be acceptable to qualify to those standards. It's not arbitrary.
My comments were primarily aimed at combinations using electronic muffs. I'm interested on thoughts about that.

O6nop wrote:Absolutely, the wearer should use whatever is comfortable. I'm just offering options and food for thought for selection. But as far as hearing protection, there are standards, ANSI, ASA, CSA, OSHA and the like. The testing equipment has to be acceptable to qualify to those standards. It's not arbitrary.

My comments were primarily aimed at combinations using electronic muffs. I'm interested on thoughts about that.

You are correct that the ratings are not arbitrary, but the ratings relate only to safety. The testing is done with instruments that measure certain parameters to make sure that they meet ANSI or OSHA specifications. The OSHA standards are designed to set limits so that workers will not suffer hearing damage on the job. I have worked in rooms that were well below OSHA limits, but the sound was still too loud to carry on a normal conversation.

OSHA specs do not take into account whether or not they are comfortable to wear over long periods or have good sound quality. As with most safety equipment, if it not convenient and comfortable to use people tend not to use it.

As an example, I have used safety glasses that meet the ANSI standards for impact resistance, but the quality of the plastic and molding is such poor quality that my vision is blurred and gives me headaches if worn over a period of time. I have probably tried over 50 makes and models of ANSI approved safety glasses. Probably 75% of them had such dismal optical properties, rendering them useless for long term wear.

I am also interested in hearing more about electronic muffs. My point is that you shouldn't make the decision from strictly the numbers.

MechAg94 wrote:

Mastodon wrote:

Hoi Polloi wrote:I am so frustrated with the cheap plugs we have. Will you please recommend some good hearing protection?

I want it to be good quality for the price, comfortable, and effective.

Recommendations in any price range that meets the above (and a comment about it being budget-minded or top-of-the-line, etc) would be appreciated.

I haven't read over all the responses.

If you are going to go to the range more than once, definitely switch to the muffs from the plugs. 'Twill make all the difference. You'll be glad you did.

Not all muffs are equal. It may have been mentioned, but a lot of the muffs at the local stores are pretty poor sound reduction ratings. On the other hand, a lot of the soft foam plugs are rated at 30 or more. I do agree that some of those plugs are extremely uncomfortable and scratch your ear. Since I wear plugs all the time at work, I knew what I liked and went to the local industrial supply store and bought a big box for $25 that has something like 200 pairs instead of what most stores carry.
http://www.labsafety.com/search/ear+plugs/24532223/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

When I used to shoot at indoor ranges regularly, I doubled up with plugs and muffs. IMO, it made a big difference. Now that I mostly shoot at an outdoor range, I find doubling up is only necessary when people are shooting close by.

Well, I'll have to give that doubling up a try.
This has been a good thread.