Airport Security - A perfect solution

[RPB]

I guess on next fly i will wear a speedo and refuse pat down, will i get a pass?@

Scottish Kilt rather than a Speedo..

Buncha people are thinking gettin' a group carpool together to all go for free massages.
Is there a limit on the number of times a person can go through?

You need 5 Gals good for 1 hr flight of 60 miles. Bring your own can.

Burns 4.5 GPH. Where do you carry the can?

Forget the can, where do the 5 girls ride in that single seat helicopter?

[sawdust]

One day, I hope to get my PP Lic. I am sure I will be put under the microscope and questioned a lot, as I am foreign born. That is fine with me. My cousin a leading physician has already got his. So why not myself? Of course, he makes like 10X income that what I do.

Coincidently, I was researching personal helicopter as means of transportation (Cost, running cost, etc.).

Helicopters are expensive to buy, expensive to fly, and expensive to maintain.

How about this?

http://www.terrafugia.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The wings fold up, electro-hydraulically (after landing , of course ) and it then becomes a road-worthy automobile. Deliveries are expected to begin in late 2011.

[Bart]

I'm hoping the opt out day on Nov. 24, where passengers will refuse the naked scanners and demand the pat down, will delay flights all over the country.

http://www.optoutday.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's not limited to the internet. Opt Out Day has gone national in the mainstream media.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/16/business/16road.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 81708.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I hope next Wednesday is a win for civil rights and a loss for Team Sexual Assault.

[drjoker]

Any good trainnig school referal for north Dallas? i may be interested in both fixed wing and rotor
thanks

I used Monarch at the Addison airport. They're great. The price per hour of flight is the same whether you fly a new or old plane. Be sure to reserve a specific plane and not just a particular model so that you'll pay the same but be able to fly a shiny new plane. My only complaint is that they were 30.06 posted the last time that I checked. I haven't been there in awhile, so if you make it there first, please post in this thread and let us know their current status. Thanks.

BTW, you have to gain experience with a fixed wing single engine aircraft first before they'll allow you to fly a helicopter. Helicopters are more difficult to fly because you'll have to actively "balance" the aircraft and actively fly it. A single engine Cessna will literally fly itself it is so easy to fly. You only have to tweak it a bit during flight, take-off, and land.

Also, you could hire the pilot instructors to fly you places, too. Sorta like a chartered private flight. You could combine flight instruction with chartered flight (kill 2 birds with one stone).

[TexasGal]

BNC, your post above was so good, I put it in an e-mail to every person in my yahoo address book. That was about 75 people. Thanks for providing such great info on it.

I urge everyone to do the same. There is a large segment of the population that just does not fly and are tuning all this out. If they could be made to understand this scanner is coming sooner or later to their daily lives, they might be more willing to put up a fight now.

The entire thing just tics me off. I refuse to fly ever again if we don't put a stop to it.

[OldCannon]

Share this website with everybody you know http://wewontfly.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[bnc]

TexasGal, I'm glad you're sending it out and every feel free to post it elsewhere. I actually put that together to email to some of my coworkers whom I was talking about it to. It took a few days to put together since every time I sat down to write it I found 10x more new horror stories. I actually had a hard to sitting down at the computer I was so angry, hands shaking, sweaty, pacing the room...and I'm usually very calm, too calm sometimes. I still don't understand how people, especially parents, can sit there and watch children be assaulted. I'm pretty sure that under most circumstances that a self defense shooting for sexual assault is justified.

Now is a great time to mention this travesty to others since it is travel season. A casual question to a friend about their holiday plans provides the perfect time. "Oh, you're going to visit family, that sounds fun. But I hope you're not flying, have you heard about the new security?" Telling coworkers that I could comfortably describe the procedures and that it wasn't really work appropriate discussion seemed to peak interest very easily.

[RPB]

Scottish Kilt costumes are cheap since Holllow Ween is over; but the Sporran (fanny pack) is still expensive
02012 Adult Scottish Kilt Braveheart Costume
http://www.amazon.com/02012-Adult-Scott ... B0028IJA80" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Sporran (Fanny Pack)
http://www.theirongategallery.com/Scott ... p_381.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Just before going to the airport, I'd stop at Wal-Mart to see if you get on peopleofwalmart.com

[bigred90gt]

Actually, beiruty, it's already begun. If you refuse the x-ray nude scanner, then they'll do an "invasive" pat down where they'll stick their hands INSIDE your underwear and dig around. Kids are NOT exempt from this. I can expect lots of child molesters applying for this job. The X-ray scanners have lower radiation than hospital x-ray scanners, but they are MORE carcinogenic (cancer causing). This is because the x-ray nude scanners concentrate radiation on your skin to give the nude image. The radiation per square inch of skin is several times that of the radiation per square inch when you get a hospital x-ray because the hospital x-ray machines don't concentrate the x-rays on a specific spot while the airport x-ray nude scanners does concentrate the radiation on your skin. PLEASE write your congressman/senators. This has GOT to stop!

For the record, I do not agree with the x-ray machines on a personal level.

That being said, this entire paragraph is false (with the exception of perhaps the invasive pat down where they dig around inside your underwear, I dont know anything about that procedure). X-rays cannot be "concentrated" on the skin of a human and be "more carcinogenic". The technique is backscatter x-ray. Low levels of radiation waves are sent out by the machine, and as there are no lead screens on the human body to soak up the backscatter, the backscatter (the waves reflecting off of the body) will be reflected back into the machine. The imaging plates are in the machine, and pick up the backscatter, which produces an image of your body. In the X-ray industry, there is no such thing as "radiation per square inch of skin". There are millirems (which is a measure of radiation), and there is standard produced by the USNRC (United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission) that states that for the public, there shall be no more than 2 millirem in any 1 hour period from external radiation sources in any unrestricted area, and no more than 100 millirem in any 12 month period from internal and external sources in any unrestricted or controlled area. Occupational limits are higher. According to reports, a person subject to the whole body scan backscatter imaging machines will receive 0.005mrems during the scan, which takes approximately 15 seconds. Just so you know, I deal with x-rays on a daily basis at work (and have for the last 10 years or so), have taken level I and level II x-ray courses which require you to know the regulations for x-ray, and the radiation safety course as required by federal regulations to work with x-ray, so I have a little bit of an idea of what I am talking about.

Again, I do not support the idea on a personal level, but I dont want false information to be believed to be true.

[Dragonfighter]

One day, I hope to get my PP Lic. I am sure I will be put under the microscope and questioned a lot, as I am foreign born. That is fine with me. My cousin a leading physician has already got his. So why not myself? Of course, he makes like 10X income that what I do.

Coincidently, I was researching personal helicopter as means of transportation (Cost, running cost, etc.).

BTW, Does full body scanner work? Can they see stuff in body cavities? Very scary!

No microscope. Just some TSA paperwork, and documentation. Pretty simple. As for the personal helicopter, and the training required for a private license, you better be making what your cousin does

Yup. A Cessna 172 dual when my daughter was flying ran us about 130/hr. The cheapest recip helo dual is about 400/hr. The typical learning curve on rotor wing is steeper than fixed wing as well.

Added in edit: I don't know how one can face charges or fines for simply saying, "if you touch my junk I'll have you arrested". No threats, no raised tones, nothing. If we do have to fly it will be Space A.

[Bennies]

Bennies, I applaud you for putting your money where your mouth is. Sacrificing a job for principles is difficult enough, let alone in a crumbling economy. I hate to see decent people regulated, legislated, and bullied out of their professions.

I'm sure it is no surprise that I have already opted out of flying all together. Most of the time it won't be a big deal, but I do have family on the other side of the country. Looking on the bright side, I might have some nice road trips in the future.

I'm hoping the opt out day on Nov. 24, where passengers will refuse the naked scanners and demand the pat down, will delay flights all over the country.

I think I am working on the 24th and i hope there is gridlock in all of the screening lines. It would sure be nice to see people stand against this.

Interestingly enough I decided to pull one of my old text books from my aviation law class. There was a whole chapter dedicated to security. It was a fascinating read as there are many examples of established case law in regards to airport security screening vs our 4th amendment rights. Now I am not a lawyer (although i would have went that way in my career) but from what i read I do not no how these scanners and pat downs could even be considered reasonable search under the 4th amendment. Especially after some of the previous case law. While the 4th amendment does not prohibit searches of any kind, if there are to be searches they must be reasonable and non invasive unless PC can be established. Therefore in my opinion, the new procedures are way to invasive and can not be defined as reasonable. Hopefully the courts will see it that way too.

The book is "Aviation and the Law". Authors are Laurance Gesell and Paul Stephen Dempsey. If you can find it at a library or somewhere and read that chapter it is well worth the read.

[A-R]

I've been reading a bit about these new airport security rules and greatly appreciate the information and links provided in this thread.

I made the decision a few years ago not to fly anymore unless absolutely necessary (for instance, to attend a funeral on short notice). This had to do with the generally undesirable conditions for a "big ol boy" like me, cramped seats etc., plus all the new security regulations, and flying with very young children all just made the whole experience a nightmare for me. So my wife and I agreed we would buy the minivan she wanted with the understanding that we would from that point forward DRIVE to California to see her parents instead of flying.

But these new "enhanced screening" techniques have me considering whether I will ever again allow my children to fly at all. As they get older, grandparents are begging us to just put the kids on the plane by themselves (my brother and I used to do this often when we were kids) so they can visit even if mommy and daddy have to work.

But the thought of some government lacky "patting down" my daughter's private areas is terrifying. I also seriously question the legality of such pat downs. I am of course not a lawyer, but one of the basic tenants of sexual crimes against children is that minors are incapable of ever giving consent to sexual conduct of any kind. Reviewing Texas law, it seems "sexual assault" would not apply (won't go into the horrible details, you can read the statutes for yourself), but how does a TSA "enhanced pat down" of a minor child get around this Texas PC 21.11 Indecency with a Child? The only point raised in law below that might make it more difficult to prove is the "intent" written in subsection (c) that I have placed in bold type below.

Is TSA's loophole to violating this law (and other similar laws I'm sure all 50 states have) merely the implied "consent" of the minor child's parents? What if parents refuse to consent? Will we be detained or even arrested as the "if you touch my junk ..." guy in San Diego was arrested last week?

This is all madness.

Sec. 21.11. INDECENCY WITH A CHILD. (a) A person commits an offense if, with a child younger than 17 years of age, whether the child is of the same or opposite sex, the person:

(1) engages in sexual contact with the child or causes the child to engage in sexual contact; or

(2) with intent to arouse or gratify the sexual desire of any person:

(A) exposes the person's anus or any part of the person's genitals, knowing the child is present; or

(B) causes the child to expose the child's anus or any part of the child's genitals.

(b) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under this section that the actor:

(1) was not more than three years older than the victim and of the opposite sex;

(2) did not use duress, force, or a threat against the victim at the time of the offense; and

(3) at the time of the offense:

(A) was not required under Chapter 62, Code of Criminal Procedure, to register for life as a sex offender; or

(B) was not a person who under Chapter 62 had a reportable conviction or adjudication for an offense under this section.

(b-1) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under this section that the actor was the spouse of the child at the time of the offense.

(c) In this section, "sexual contact" means the following acts, if committed with the intent to arouse or gratify the sexual desire of any person:

(1) any touching by a person, including touching through clothing, of the anus, breast, or any part of the genitals of a child; or

(2) any touching of any part of the body of a child, including touching through clothing, with the anus, breast, or any part of the genitals of a person.

(d) An offense under Subsection (a)(1) is a felony of the second degree and an offense under Subsection (a)(2) is a felony of the third degree.

[Bennies]

I've been reading a bit about these new airport security rules and greatly appreciate the information and links provided in this thread.

I made the decision a few years ago not to fly anymore unless absolutely necessary (for instance, to attend a funeral on short notice). This had to do with the generally undesirable conditions for a "big ol boy" like me, cramped seats etc., plus all the new security regulations, and flying with very young children all just made the whole experience a nightmare for me. So my wife and I agreed we would buy the minivan she wanted with the understanding that we would from that point forward DRIVE to California to see her parents instead of flying.

But these new "enhanced screening" techniques have me considering whether I will ever again allow my children to fly at all. As they get older, grandparents are begging us to just put the kids on the plane by themselves (my brother and I used to do this often when we were kids) so they can visit even if mommy and daddy have to work.

But the thought of some government lacky "patting down" my daughter's private areas is terrifying. I also seriously question the legality of such pat downs. I am of course not a lawyer, but one of the basic tenants of sexual crimes against children is that minors are incapable of ever giving consent to sexual conduct of any kind. Reviewing Texas law, it seems "sexual assault" would not apply (won't go into the horrible details, you can read the statutes for yourself), but how does a TSA "enhanced pat down" of a minor child get around this Texas PC 21.11 Indecency with a Child? The only point raised in law below that might make it more difficult to prove is the "intent" written in subsection (c) that I have placed in bold type below.

Is TSA's loophole to violating this law (and other similar laws I'm sure all 50 states have) merely the implied "consent" of the minor child's parents? What if parents refuse to consent? Will we be detained or even arrested as the "if you touch my junk ..." guy in San Diego was arrested last week?

This is all madness.

Sec. 21.11. INDECENCY WITH A CHILD. (a) A person commits an offense if, with a child younger than 17 years of age, whether the child is of the same or opposite sex, the person:

(1) engages in sexual contact with the child or causes the child to engage in sexual contact; or

(2) with intent to arouse or gratify the sexual desire of any person:

(A) exposes the person's anus or any part of the person's genitals, knowing the child is present; or

(B) causes the child to expose the child's anus or any part of the child's genitals.

(b) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under this section that the actor:

(1) was not more than three years older than the victim and of the opposite sex;

(2) did not use duress, force, or a threat against the victim at the time of the offense; and

(3) at the time of the offense:

(A) was not required under Chapter 62, Code of Criminal Procedure, to register for life as a sex offender; or

(B) was not a person who under Chapter 62 had a reportable conviction or adjudication for an offense under this section.

(b-1) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under this section that the actor was the spouse of the child at the time of the offense.

(c) In this section, "sexual contact" means the following acts, if committed with the intent to arouse or gratify the sexual desire of any person:

(1) any touching by a person, including touching through clothing, of the anus, breast, or any part of the genitals of a child; or

(2) any touching of any part of the body of a child, including touching through clothing, with the anus, breast, or any part of the genitals of a person.

(d) An offense under Subsection (a)(1) is a felony of the second degree and an offense under Subsection (a)(2) is a felony of the third degree.

Some one brought up a good point and I can't remember if it was on here or one of my other pilot forums. As far as children go, sometimes their parents or legal guardians make the decision to fly and the child really has no say in the matter. They must comply with these rules even if they do not want to becuase the parent choose for them to fly. Some kids really have no say in the matter.

[Bennies]

By the way I am reading some of the cost associated with instruction and aircraft rentals now. I can not believe how much it has all gone up in price. I have been out of GA for a while (I miss it though) but when i learned to fly I could rent a Piper Tramahawk or a Cessna 150 for 41$ an hour when i learned starting back in 1998. Times have changed. When I was an instructor I quoted people around 3,000$ for a ppl with dual and everything included! I feel old now because I am telling back in my day stories and I am not that old LOL.

[pbwalker]

By the way I am reading some of the cost associated with instruction and aircraft rentals now. I can not believe how much it has all gone up in price. I have been out of GA for a while (I miss it though) but when i learned to fly I could rent a Piper Tramahawk or a Cessna 150 for 41$ an hour when i learned starting back in 1998. Times have changed. When I was an instructor I quoted people around 3,000$ for a ppl with dual and everything included! I feel old now because I am telling back in my day stories and I am not that old LOL.

I paid $88 an hour with instructor back in 2002, so I know where you are coming from.