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Well, there might be another option. I've said over and over that I don't really care for Glock, the 21 is just too big for me, and I just don't like the way the 30 feels in my hand. I handled a gen 4 23 this weekend and it actually felt good in my hand and pointed almost like my 1911 and is about the same size overall. I know it's not a .45, but I don't think you really give up that much going from .45 to .40 as long as shot placement is there, right? And if 13+1 of .40 doesn't solve the problem it's probably unsolvable with a handgun. I don't own a .40 now but carried a Kahr K40 for a while and have shot the gen 2 22 even kept one around for HD for a while.

So, I think that I stand about here now
Sig 250-45 Compact
Sig 250-45 Full size
XD 45 Compact
Glock Gen 4 23

Could I possibly actually be moving toward the Dark Side by considering a Glock?

I used to say "life is too short to carry and ugly gun", but I think I've come to realize that a pretty gun gets beat up being carried constantly, and by the time some one sees your concealed gun pretty doesn't matter just the

If you are considering a .40sw then that opens up a world of choices for you. You could go the CZ 75 compact route, any of the trade in HK USPc in .40sw will fall on your price range, many Sig options can fall in that price point. Go handle as many as you can and buy what feels good and will conceal well for you. EVERY pistol mentioned in this thread is fantastic and have great reliability reputations. Maybe look at another Khar or even a Walther PPS in .40sw.

RAM4171 wrote:Could I possibly actually be moving toward the Dark Side by considering a Glock?

I used to say "life is too short to carry and ugly gun", but I think I've come to realize that a pretty gun gets beat up being carried constantly, and by the time some one sees your concealed gun pretty doesn't matter just the

Beauty is in the eye of the be holder,,,,Want a nice looking one get the M&P. Mine are as good as my Glocks.

I have agreed with the addage, "You show the 1911's to your friends and the Glock(M&P) to your enemies."

RAM4171 wrote: So, I think that I stand about here now
Sig 250-45 Compact
Sig 250-45 Full size
XD 45 Compact
Glock Gen 4 23

Try the M&P 45s ... I just picked up a full-size today viewtopic.php?f=23&t=41849&p=503674#p503674" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and love it already. But had a chance to buy the compact 45 and might have done so except the particular used gun I was looking at had the thumb safety which I don't like (13-year Glock shooter). As a 1911 guy though, the M&P 45 thumb safety will feel VERY natural to you. And the M&P45c is a great size - similar to a Glock 23 (which I also own and is a great gun in its own right).

Thanks' for the suggestion
the M&P's are nice looking guns, I've just been turned off by the hinged trigger. How does that compare to the bladed trigger of the Glock and the XD?
Not only am I a 1911guy but also enjoy the Kahr and revolvers, that's why the new Sig intrigues me.
Again thanks' to all for the input, I really value ya'lls opinion.

I am a 5 gun expert in IDPA so I have shot them all. I don't notice the trigger being any different from M&P to 1911. Only the trigger pounds are different and not very much at that!

High Standard is a Houston company and they make a nice .45 - http://www.highstandard.com/

mikeintexas wrote:In the same style as your 1911 (great gun BTW!), you may want to look at something like a Rock Island Arsenal 1911. I saw some at the Winchester Gallery off 820 and Rosedale (? I think) for around $500 plus tax. That was you could use the same holsters you currently use.

Winchester's at 820 and Lancaster, but Close!!!

Well I think that I have pretty much decided on the XD .45 compact. I've read so many good thing about the XD's and tha 20,000 round torture test was amazing. I think the only question now is stainless steel or Melonite slide? I typically like stainless guns, 92 AFS(which is for sale by the way), Kahr MK9, Stainless Officers', and 642, but like I said before I'm looking for the most durable not pretty.

I've read that Tenifer and Melonite are basically the same if not exactly the same. The biggest diference that I've read is that with Melonite the color is in the Melonite and with Tenifer the black is applied in a step after the Tenifer. So in ya'lls opinions whats going to be the hardest most durable, take the most abuse and stand up best in adverse conditions? Stainless Steel or Melonite? Not that I'm going to mistreat the gun, I just want to get the toughest thing possible. Basically I want a bullet proof gun.

RAM4171 wrote:Well I think that I have pretty much decided on the XD .45 compact. I've read so many good thing about the XD's and tha 20,000 round torture test was amazing. I think the only question now is stainless steel or Melonite slide? I typically like stainless guns, 92 AFS(which is for sale by the way), Kahr MK9, Stainless Officers', and 642, but like I said before I'm looking for the most durable not pretty.

I've read that Tenifer and Melonite are basically the same if not exactly the same. The biggest diference that I've read is that with Melonite the color is in the Melonite and with Tenifer the black is applied in a step after the Tenifer. So in ya'lls opinions whats going to be the hardest most durable, take the most abuse and stand up best in adverse conditions? Stainless Steel or Melonite? Not that I'm going to mistreat the gun, I just want to get the toughest thing possible. Basically I want a bullet proof gun.

The Melonite XD slides are still stainless steel underneath. My M&P slide is the same way - Melonite over stainless steel. That finish will eventually wear through, they all do, even the Glock's Tenifer finish. But from a practical aspect, I think that seeing the sights over the top of a black slide on a bright sunny day might be easier than seeing them over the top of a shiny stainless slide; and at night, there would be no difference. I would be inclined to buy the Melonite version myself. That said, I also carry a stainless 1911 on some days.

The Annoyed Man wrote:

RAM4171 wrote:Well I think that I have pretty much decided on the XD .45 compact. I've read so many good thing about the XD's and tha 20,000 round torture test was amazing. I think the only question now is stainless steel or Melonite slide? I typically like stainless guns, 92 AFS(which is for sale by the way), Kahr MK9, Stainless Officers', and 642, but like I said before I'm looking for the most durable not pretty.

I've read that Tenifer and Melonite are basically the same if not exactly the same. The biggest diference that I've read is that with Melonite the color is in the Melonite and with Tenifer the black is applied in a step after the Tenifer. So in ya'lls opinions whats going to be the hardest most durable, take the most abuse and stand up best in adverse conditions? Stainless Steel or Melonite? Not that I'm going to mistreat the gun, I just want to get the toughest thing possible. Basically I want a bullet proof gun.

The Melonite XD slides are still stainless steel underneath. My M&P slide is the same way - Melonite over stainless steel. That finish will eventually wear through, they all do, even the Glock's Tenifer finish. But from a practical aspect, I think that seeing the sights over the top of a black slide on a bright sunny day might be easier than seeing them over the top of a shiny stainless slide; and at night, there would be no difference. I would be inclined to buy the Melonite version myself. That said, I also carry a stainless 1911 on some days.

Actually Tennifer is a case hardening, not a mere "finish" coat like we think of with parkerizing, Duracoating, etc.. The matte black color on a Glock slide is simply a parkerized final coating/finish done over the case-hardened/ferritic nitrocarburized "tenifer" metal. You could rub every last bit of the black color off a Glock slide and it still would not rust.

Glock Ges.m.b.H., an Austrian firearms manufacturer, utilizes the Tenifer process to protect the barrels and slides of the pistols they manufacture. The finish on a Glock pistol is the third and final hardening process. It is 0.05 mm (0.0020 in) thick and produces a 64 Rockwell C hardness rating via a 500 °C (932 °F) nitride bath. The final matte, non-glare finish meets or exceeds stainless steel specifications, is 85% more corrosion resistant than a hard chrome finish, and is 99.9% salt-water corrosion resistant. After the Tenifer process, a black Parkerized finish is applied and the slide is protected even if the finish were to wear off. Besides Glock several other pistol manufacturers also use ferritic nitrocarburizing for finishing parts like barrels and slides.[17]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferritic_nitrocarburizing" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Melonite is similar to tenifer but different in that it is more environmentally friendly, and legal in the US (the tenifer process violates US environmental laws and is this only done in Germany, UK etc.). Which is fine by me - let the Krauts get black lung while S&W and Springfield workers stay healthy (note, if not inherently obvious, this is merely a xenophobic WWII-era joke and nothing more - I have nothing against Germans)

http://firearmshistory.blogspot.com/201 ... ritic.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RAM4171 wrote:Thanks' for the suggestion
the M&P's are nice looking guns, I've just been turned off by the hinged trigger. How does that compare to the bladed trigger of the Glock and the XD?
Not only am I a 1911guy but also enjoy the Kahr and revolvers, that's why the new Sig intrigues me.
Again thanks' to all for the input, I really value ya'lls opinion.

M&P, Glock, XD are all variations on the same theme. Glocks seems to be the least "ergonomic" grip of the three, and the physical traits of the bladed trigger do pinch some shooters' fingers a bit. But out of the box, I still think Glock has best trigger action of the three. However, an XD with a Springer Precision trigger job is phenomenal - probably closest you'll find to a 1911 feel in a polymer, striker-fired gun. Glocks with just a $20 connector swap are nice - about 4.5-lb pull, but still some take up. More comprehensive Glock trigger action work can get into the 2.5-pound range with little slack - which is likely one reason they are used by a lot of compeition shooters - with work, you can make a Glock trigger as nice as a competition 1911. M&P right now seems to be somewhat limited to the OEM "Pro" sear kit with the "Pro" line of guns, or the Apex Tactical trigger parts - which I use in mine and highly recommend. With Apex hard sear and improved striker block, you get about a 4-pound pull with a very crisp break and decent reset (much better than S&W factory trigger, which is not that great). But the take up slack before trigger break is still long (supposedly Apex is working on a fix for this and may have something availably by this spring.

You M&P guys will enjoy reading this
http://pistol-training.com/archives/900" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Although not as dramatic, with mountain drop and jeep run over and dirt dunking and freezing and mud bath, as the XD torture test. It is quite impressive with almost three times the rounds fired.
This really ups the M&P in consideration, so the decision is not final.

Have you seen the Glock torture test? dropped from 10,000 feet out of an airplane, dragged behind a truck, run over by a truck, etc

http://www.theprepared.com/index.php?op ... view&id=90" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also 1,000 rounds fired basically non-stop on a G19 - at about 950 rounds the barrel, slide, springs are so hot it melts the polymer guide rod - but gun keeps on firing without the guide rod!

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_JuF23qazI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyZxQfIB ... re=related" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I say - Stoeger Cougar in 45. It's essentially a Beretta Cougar, as Beretta owns Cougar. And, they transferred the equipment to Stoeger. They are only around $450 too.