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Questions for all of you who dutifully unholster, unload, bag your carry gun surreptitiously before entering a gun range with described signage, then unbagging, reloading, and reholstering upon leaving:

1. Do you think this is SAFER for you and others involved than simply unholstering at the firing line inside the controlled shooting area?

2. Do you think the range owners/operators PREFER you do it this way or at the line? Or do you think the real third option is they want you to show up at their range with your gun(s) already unloaded and bagged, thus rendering yourself defenseless, or at least unable to shoot your carry gun at that time.

3. Why don't ranges offer a secured load/unload holster/unholster area? Heck, GT Distributors gun shop in Austin has a sound-proof/bullet-proof contraption at the gun counter where you can stick the muzzle of your loaded carry gun while unloading it before handing it to one of the attendants for some service (sight installation and such).

I don't have an agenda with these questions, just looking at this whole issue from a pragmatic and safety-conscious standpoint. A gentleman who was "handling" (supposedly) his weapon shot and killed himself in his vehicle outside the Red's Indoor Range in Pflugerville about a year ago.

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A-R wrote:I don't have an agenda with these questions, just looking at this whole issue from a pragmatic and safety-conscious standpoint. A gentleman who was "handling" (supposedly) his weapon shot and killed himself in his vehicle outside the Red's Indoor Range in Pflugerville about a year ago.

I don't know anything about that case but I have seen scenes where it was pretty obvious the person committed a suicide in their car. In those cases, maybe they did it in a public place so their family wouldn't be the ones to find their body, but that part is pure speculation.

¿Qué? wrote:

A-R wrote:I don't have an agenda with these questions, just looking at this whole issue from a pragmatic and safety-conscious standpoint. A gentleman who was "handling" (supposedly) his weapon shot and killed himself in his vehicle outside the Red's Indoor Range in Pflugerville about a year ago.

I don't know anything about that case but I have seen scenes where it was pretty obvious the person committed a suicide in their car. In those cases, maybe they did it in a public place so their family wouldn't be the ones to find their body, but that part is pure speculation.

I agree, but I still don't think loading/unloading a gun in a car in parking lot is as safe as doing on/in a firing range, with gun pointed down range. There was another ND incident I've heard of recently of a competitor shooting a hole in the floor of his vehicle when trying to unload inside his car before an IDPA match.

It seems that a car is a terrible place to try to unload/load your weapon. I have heard of at least two NDs from this, including one where the fellow put a round into his leg. I think all the gun touching that needs to be done should be done prior to entering your vehicle.

RJ

Have you ever noticed there are usually more ADs when cleaning a gun? The range I've been attending does not permit gun cleaning on premises. They perfer you shooting yourself at home. To me its safer to break down and clean on the range so you can reload your carry gun and rack with the muzzle facing downrange and your EDC is primed to protect you on the trip back home.

CHLNewbie wrote:I don't believe that orally qualifies under any of the 30.06 definitions that I encountered in my class. Maybe that's something that my class neglected.

[ ETA: OK, I see the oral subsection of 30.06 and how it works. Thanks.]

He saw it because I was shopping for an accessory and he asked whether I had the gun with me, and to see it to look for a fit. But that's also an area I'm also unclear on - the transition from concealed to unconcealed and back.

Then you just broke the law:
§ 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE
HOLDER. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license
holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person
under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,
and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.

If you are shopping for an accessory for one gun, bring that one in unloaded, and use a different one for CC while in the store.

The law does not differentiate between loaded and unloaded. Why would it matter if you brought an unloaded handgun in to the store for a fitting? A gun is a gun is a gun, no matter from where it was taken. Also, guns are permitted to be displayed when it is integral to the event such as gun shows, gun stores, ranges, defensive use, etc. Again, no mention of loaded status anywhere but accessibility to a child.

Bulldog1911 wrote:

CHLNewbie wrote:I don't believe that orally qualifies under any of the 30.06 definitions that I encountered in my class. Maybe that's something that my class neglected.

[ ETA: OK, I see the oral subsection of 30.06 and how it works. Thanks.]

He saw it because I was shopping for an accessory and he asked whether I had the gun with me, and to see it to look for a fit. But that's also an area I'm also unclear on - the transition from concealed to unconcealed and back.

Then you just broke the law:
§ 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE
HOLDER. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license
holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person
under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,
and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.

If you are shopping for an accessory for one gun, bring that one in unloaded, and use a different one for CC while in the store.

It is my belief that concealment requirements go out the window when you are in a private-store and the owner or his authorized representative gives you permission to display/handle your weapon.
I am not sure if my belief is shared by wandering LEO's, lawyers and itinerant judges.

bufford wrote:Same here... I shoot at the range where I took my CHL class. That sign was posted, so I asked the guys behind the counter. Their reply was "Is that a 30.06 sign" & "If it is concealed (as it is suppose to be) , no one will ever know, will they??"
Common sense... a commodity in short supply. When in doubt - ASK!!

If you don't ask then you're not breaking any laws carrying in there. If you do ask and they say you're not allowed to carry inside then you have been given notice and have to leave the gun behind.

I've seen this kind of sign in a Gander Mountain, and like the way they handle it.

...that's like a breath of fresh air for us!!! for the others, they should have included UNLOADED in there somewhere...you'd be surprised how many folks handed me a loaded handgun to pawn or sell in 5 years...some folks is stupid...

Our store has a sign that reads 'All firearms must be cased or concealed prior to entering'. We get nervous if someone comes in holding a handgun or rifle because we don't immediately know what their intentions are...it's happened before and the person came close to being drawn on.

If someone brings in a firearm to test fit a holster, have the gun cleaned, or needs sights installed, it is our policy to take the gun from the person and clear it at our clearing station first and keep any ammunition seperated from the gun.

It all boils down to keeping us, as well as our clients safe. Working in a gun store everyday, I'm often amazed how many people practice poor gun handling and don't adhere to the most basic safety rules.

Bulldog1911 wrote:If you are shopping for an accessory for one gun, bring that one in unloaded, and use a different one for CC while in the store.

When going to Bass Pro's range I used to unload my self defense rounds and put everything in my ammo case and then go inside. They would check everything and put that trigger lock thing on and I would be on my way to the range, where they would unlock it. Reverse the process to exit. Now, with their latest policy for those with a CHL things are a little different. I just got back from there about an hour ago and this is how it went.

Walked on in with my gun concealed and loaded. Targets and range ammo in a tote bag. No one asked my any questions at the entrance. Browsed around for a few minutes and then made my way to the range. Showed they guy my card and paid. He asked if I needed anything unlocked and I said, "No thank you." I put my ear plugs in and glasses on and went on in. Unconcealed with my gun side toward the backstop so that the muzzle was only pointed down for a fraction of a second. Unloaded my self defense rounds. Shot my 100 range rounds and did okay. Reloaded the self defense rounds and re-concealed. Exited range, took out my earplugs, took off my glasses, and then went to purchase what I'd browsed for prior to entering the range and came home.

I like their new policy. I definitely like this better than the old way.

Both ranges by me have signs saying no loaded on door, then have something to extent that does not apply to CHL holders. Only a couple of LGS and I refuse to go in one, but they have the must be unloaded actions locked back, never removed my gun to know how they truely feel about it. But if they wanted me to not carry they could put the proper sign up.