TexasCHLforum.com

seamusTX wrote: You have the power to influence the U.S. and state government. Ask Suzanna Gratia Hupp how that works.

- Jim

Don't even have to look that far, some of the folks here and the input here, can have conciderable influence on what happens in Austin.

Liberty wrote: with me its not so much about what the commies will do, It is about what they have done, what those particular guns and ammo were made for. That ammo, and those guns was made to kill me and the folks I grew up with. Maybe its politically incorrect, but I don't like those people. They wanted to kill me. They killed a few of my friends, and put some holes in my family members. The guns, the ammo, and the people that made them don't give me the warm fuzzys. I won't line their pockets if I can help it, and I won't support their firearms manufactures.

What the guns were made for? When the Yugoslavian SKS's were made they were for defense against the USSR, that is why they lack chromed barrels...the Yugo's wouldn't buy chromium form their enemy.

That arguement also sounds a lot like how the anti's argue against guns, that they are "made" to kill. It is true they were designed for that but that dosn't mean it is their only purpose, it isn't the guns fault.

WheySmart wrote:

Liberty wrote: with me its not so much about what the commies will do, It is about what they have done, what those particular guns and ammo were made for. That ammo, and those guns was made to kill me and the folks I grew up with. Maybe its politically incorrect, but I don't like those people. They wanted to kill me. They killed a few of my friends, and put some holes in my family members. The guns, the ammo, and the people that made them don't give me the warm fuzzys. I won't line their pockets if I can help it, and I won't support their firearms manufactures.

What the guns were made for? When the Yugoslavian SKS's were made they were for defense against the USSR, that is why they lack chromed barrels...the Yugo's wouldn't buy chromium form their enemy.
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That arguement also sounds a lot like how the anti's argue against guns, that they are "made" to kill. It is true they were designed for that but that dosn't mean it is their only purpose, it isn't the guns fault.

I have nothing against those guns, Just the people that made them, and the people who make the money on them. That and the fact that I'm an American, and resent giving any money to communist nations.
Some day I wouldn't mind owning a an AK47. But If I do ever do I will be fussy about its heritage. One that was taken from from the bad guys, not one that was bought from a bad guy.

I wouldn't expect that you or anyone else to feel the same way. Those people were not killing your buddys.

Yes, they killed your buddy's in the past. They are not as strong as they once were....it all depends on who you trust more, at this point I don't trust the US too much, if they don't want to uphold ourr ights they won't, look at California. I fear my government more than I fear the Russians...You obviously have a personal quarel with them and your mind won't change, I didn't got hrough that so for me the US is scarier...it is all perspective.

WheySmart wrote:Yes, they killed your buddy's in the past. They are not as strong as they once were....it all depends on who you trust more, at this point I don't trust the US too much, if they don't want to uphold ourr ights they won't, look at California. I fear my government more than I fear the Russians...You obviously have a personal quarel with them and your mind won't change, I didn't got hrough that so for me the US is scarier...it is all perspective.

It has nothing to do with fear. Its about love. and dislike. I love America, The Amercan workingman is me and my neigbors. Pretty nice people I want them to have jobs and make a living.
You might not think much about America, but we have quite a bit of freedom and opportunity here. more than just about any place that I know about. every thing goes in cycles and the way I see it we are gaining more rights and freedoms these days than we are losing.. It ain't perfect. but its the best place we have right now, and if you think its bad here you ought to check out a few of the other places.

Don't get me wrong, I love America...that dosn't mean I will follow it mindlessly into oblivion. It is true, we are getting rights BACK, rights that had been previously TAKEN. I don't trust government, look at what happened it Russia, Look at what happened in Germany....thats the reason, if our leaders want to do that they will. Just wait and see how much they care about your rights if taking them away gives them more power. They will take them away bit by bit, you won't even notice...then, one day, you will wonder where all the freedom went and we will be too far gone to reverse the damage.

I love the old America...The America that lived by the constitution, as far as I am concearned in our modern world (based on what various states/cities have done) the constitution is just a work [abbreviated profanity deleted] fiction. New York disregards parts they don't like...so does LA and New Orleans...if the authorities want to take your rights away the contitution suddenly dosn't exist...the Russians aren't the current occupying force, the US is and I fear them above all else...we can worry about the Russians when they are here, there is a previous engagement right now.

Liberty wrote:You might not think much about America, but we have quite a bit of freedom and opportunity here. more than just about any place that I know about.

Ditto again. There is no place on earth where people have the freedom that we have, and also don't have to deal with warlords, terrorists, guerrillas, or corrupt governments.

We have the freedom and ability to criticize and change the system. It's just a matter of getting off your butt and doing it.

Switzerland might be nice if you were born Swiss, but they don't welcome immigrants.

- Jim

Again, your putting words in my mouth. America does give more freedom than any other country, we are THE FREE. However...if you look at the 150 year ago America you will see that freedoms are slowly dwindling away. Eventaully, as this slowly happens, we will be just as bad as them...

WheySmart wrote:Again, your putting words in my mouth. America does give more freedom than any other country, we are THE FREE. However...if you look at the 150 year ago America you will see that freedoms are slowly dwindling away. Eventaully, as this slowly happens, we will be just as bad as them...

Maybe but look where we have come!

WE have no right to enslave man:
Every man and woman to day ha a right to full citizenry.
The government is not forcing anyone into Military service.
There is no 90% tax rate today.
I can actually carry around a hand gun around in 30 states.

This looks like we have made some gains in our freedoms to me!

I suppose if we didn't focus on the negative we would never fix whats broken. I know that I have seen lots of things actually get better in my lifetime. It wasn't that long ago women were mostly concidered property in this country. That only landowners could vote. That every male had a 6 year obligation to serve the military. When I was growing up the federal government had a 90% tax rate on those who were unfortunate enough to earn a lot of money.

I believe we live the best of times. in the best place on earth. It ain't Nirvana but I don't think any people have ever had it better than what we have today.

We still need to work on things, we have made lots of steps backwards these need to be addressed and fixed.

This isn't about slavery or women's sufferage, those are good things but those were increases in freedom- now everyone is free. Some of us like what the Swiss do, 2 years mandatory military service. If you look back several generations you will see some rights that have been taken away. Farmers used to be able to go to the feed store and buy TNT to blast stumps out of the ground. I don't even thing you can be licensed for TNT now. You may say "Well thats good, now we are safer.". The same thing could be said about guns. You are thinking about buildings blowing up, hundreds of innocent people being killed. I am thinking about our right to a militia. What good is a militia against tanks, armored cars, bridges the enemy uses for transport, etc. if all it has is small arms!? You people think that because you have a few pistols and old rifles that you have fulfilled the second amendment...is that going to pierce tanks armor? No. We need TNT to blast treads off. We need incindiary grenades to lay on the heat vents. (The Finnish used the incindiary grenades strategy against the Russians in The Winter War. If you feared your government enough you would consider this, we are weak.

And in 1820 I bet you could carry a handgun in every state.

Good discussion guys, but getting way off the topic of ammunition prices. Let's get back on topic.

Thanks.

WheySmart wrote:You people think that because you have a few pistols and old rifles that you have fulfilled the second amendment...is that going to pierce tanks armor? No. We need TNT to blast treads off. We need incindiary grenades to lay on the heat vents.

Young man, you have been hanging around too many extremist web sites.

Soldiers and Marines take an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States. They are thoroughly indoctrinated in what that means. They will not attack their fellow citizens.

Presidents, congressmen, and generals have been called on the carpet to answer for their misdeeds and forced to resign. They did not call out the military to defend them, and the military would not have done so.

The most egregious violations of the Constitution took place in the 1860s, when the term "gun control" was not even imagined.

- Jim

For range work, Cheaper Than Dirt always has respectable prices on Sellier & Bellot ammo. Their current featured item is 9mm, 115 gr, FMJ at $7.57 for a box of 50; no additional discounts that I'm aware of for case prices. For .40 S&W (180 gr) it's $9.21, and .45 ACP (230 gr) it's $10.57.

I've been happy with S&B ammo, with the caveat that I've used only the .45 cartridges. It's manufactured in the Czech Republic--I hope that doesn't stimulate any discussion--and the plant is ISO 9001 certified. For putting holes in paper, my personal preference in .45 ACP is the S&B or Magtech (which is manufactured in Brazil). For me, both are less expensive and cleaner than WWB, and they seem to be manufactured with tight tolerances: accuracy is good with consistent velocities (the Magtech shoots about 15 fps lighter at the muzzle).

If I ever felt I had the time and space to get into reloading, I might. Meanwhile, this is what I generally buy in FMJ.

First of all, your information is old. Now, to join you must take an oath that says you will obey orders even if that means firing on US citizens.

Secondly, the governemnt dosn't have to obey the constitution. To them it is just a nice set of guidelines. California, for example, completely disregards the constitution. They have taken away the right to bear arms in LA, they can take it away elsewhere too and they can take away any other right they want.