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Re: NOW I understand CHL Badges...video.
Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:45 am
by RPB
I noticed something just now.
I used to be a Texas Licensed Private Investigator too.
I Googled Texas CHL badge.
Many CHL Badges have the
Great Seal of the State of Texas on them.
The Private Investigator firm had to get rid of all badges with the Great Seal on them. The Great Seal was replaced with Scales of Justice ...
We were told that's a no-no, though I never looked it up in the Statutes/Codes
I know the USA has regulations regarding the use of their Seal
http://law.onecle.com/uscode/18/713.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
18 USC 713 - Use of likenesses of the great seal of the United States, the seals of the President and Vice President, the seal of the United States Senate, the seal of the United States House of Representatives, and the seal of the United States Congress
and
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=8 ... 2041,58335" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Bill forbidding advertisers to use the Great Seal of Texas has been approved by flie of Representatives in Austin.
I'll look for Texas later maybe, but quickly found:
officeholder, may not use the Great Seal of Texas in a political advertisement. Penalty:
Class A misdemeanor. Reference: Election Code, § 255.006. E
Having
the Great Seal on them might be more evidence of impersonating an officer, if not a crime in itself.
I'd have to research more, but it's not a priority for me now.
Re: NOW I understand CHL Badges...video.
Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:11 am
by McJingles
Priceless
Re: NOW I understand CHL Badges...video.
Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:07 pm
by ScooterSissy
Mel wrote:That's incredible! I can't believe the state of TEXAS does not issue one with the license.
How have we survived this long without one?
What was
really incredible was
that chick was out with
that guy!
Re: NOW I understand CHL Badges...video.
Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:02 pm
by atouk
texas-sig wrote:Impersonating a peace officer.
Do you have any case law to back up that?
The way I see it, if a security guard wearing a uniform (not issued by the government) and wearing a badge (not issued by the government) is not guilty of Impersonating a peace officer, then no reasonable person could think wearing a CHL badge (not issued by the government) is even halfway close to Impersonating a peace officer.
Re: NOW I understand CHL Badges...video.
Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:28 pm
by Skiprr
atouk wrote:texas-sig wrote:Impersonating a peace officer.
Do you have any case law to back up that?
The way I see it, if a security guard wearing a uniform (not issued by the government) and wearing a badge (not issued by the government) is not guilty of Impersonating a peace officer, then no reasonable person could think wearing a CHL badge (not issued by the government) is even halfway close to Impersonating a peace officer.
IANAL, but I believe you're correct. Unless the badge, card, emblem, etc., were an out-and-out forgery or
specifically implied the individual wearing it was a peace officer as defined in
PC §1.07(36), I think it would ultimately boil down to interpretation of intent by a judge or jury. The actual law that covers impersonation of a peace officer is
PC §37.12:
Penal Code §37.12 wrote:(a) A person commits an offense if:
(1) the person makes, provides to another person, or possesses a card, document, badge, insignia, shoulder emblem, or other item bearing an insignia of a law enforcement agency that identifies a person as a peace officer or a reserve law enforcement officer; and
(2) the person who makes, provides, or possesses the item bearing the insignia knows that the person so identified by the item is not commissioned as a peace officer or reserve law enforcement officer as indicated on the item.
(b) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that:
(1) the card, document, badge , insignia, shoulder emblem, or other item bearing an insignia of a law enforcement agency clearly identifies the person as an honorary or junior peace officer or reserve law enforcement officer, or as a member of a junior posse;
(2) the person identified as a peace officer or reserve law enforcement officer by the item bearing the insignia was commissioned in that capacity when the item was made; or
(3) the item was used or intended for use exclusively for decorative purposes or in an artistic or dramatic presentation.
(c) In this section, "reserve law enforcement officer" has the same meaning as is given that term in Section 1701.001, Occupations Code.
(d) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally or knowingly misrepresents an object as property belonging to a law enforcement agency.
(e) An offense under this section is a Class B misdemeanor.
But in addition to the Penal Code, there are several other statutes that have some bearing on the use of badges, including:
Baker's Legal Pages doesn't show any case notes since 1998 that are related to PC §37.12. 'Course, that doesn't mean there aren't any.
Just thought I'd research this since the issue has come up before in discussions about CHL badges.
My own personal opinion is that they aren't illegal, per se. Still doesn't mean they're a good idea, though.
Oh, and for RPB, the Secretary of State specifically says that any private use of the Great Seal is regulated by law (
http://www.sos.state.tx.us/statdoc/seal.shtml), but I failed to find the pertinent statutes in any of the Codes.
Re: NOW I understand CHL Badges...video.
Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:01 am
by texas-sig
atouk wrote:texas-sig wrote:Impersonating a peace officer.
Do you have any case law to back up that?
The way I see it, if a security guard wearing a uniform (not issued by the government) and wearing a badge (not issued by the government) is not guilty of Impersonating a peace officer, then no reasonable person could think wearing a CHL badge (not issued by the government) is even halfway close to Impersonating a peace officer.
A few months back EPPD brought a guy in to book. The guy had no weapon according to the report but had a badge(PD kept it in their property so we never got to see what it looked like). The officer saw it when the offender pulled out his wallet to pay and the badge fell to the ground. He also had some outstanding warrants and munis but they also charged him with impersonating a peace officer. I have no idea what became of that case but with all the crazies out there that go as far as putting lights on their cars and stopping people (mostly females back about a year or so here) i can see how any silly badge can get you in trouble.
Re: NOW I understand CHL Badges...video.
Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:37 am
by gringo pistolero
texas-sig wrote:A few months back EPPD brought a guy in to book. The guy had no weapon according to the report but had a badge(PD kept it in their property so we never got to see what it looked like). The officer saw it when the offender pulled out his wallet to pay and the badge fell to the ground. He also had some outstanding warrants and munis but they also charged him with impersonating a peace officer. I have no idea what became of that case but with all the crazies out there that go as far as putting lights on their cars and stopping people (mostly females back about a year or so here) i can see how any silly badge can get you in trouble.
You don't know what the badge looked like and you don't know if he was convicted. Is that about right?
As Skiprr showed by quoting actual laws (§37.12) there's a world of difference between carrying a CHL badge and carrying a fake LEO badge. If you can find out the disposition of the case you mentioned and get a picture of the badge in question, we'll have a better idea if it has any relevance whatsoever to the discussion of CHL badges.
Much obliged!
Re: NOW I understand CHL Badges...video.
Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 12:17 pm
by Mirage
I have had people show me badges they have bought at gun shows.
I try to warn against carrying one, if someone thinks you are a policeman because you show that badge
(even REALLY dumb ones) you can be in a lot of hot water.
Re: NOW I understand CHL Badges...video.
Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 1:06 pm
by recaffeination
Mirage wrote:I have had people show me badges they have bought at gun shows.
I try to warn against carrying one, if someone thinks you are a policeman because you show that badge
(even REALLY dumb ones) you can be in a lot of hot water.
Thousands of bank guards are arrested every day in Texas because someone saw their badges.
Re: NOW I understand CHL Badges...video.
Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 2:15 pm
by RPB
Re: NOW I understand CHL Badges...video.
Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 4:54 pm
by wgoforth
Mirage wrote:I have had people show me badges they have bought at gun shows.
I try to warn against carrying one, if someone thinks you are a policeman because you show that badge
(even REALLY dumb ones) you can be in a lot of hot water.
I'm the one who started the thread, so obviously I think the badges are a bad idea... BUT I can't help what someone ~thinks~ about a badge. People ~think~ I'm a cop all the time because I am told I "look like a cop." I have had meals and sodas comped at places for it even. Difference would be if I TOLD them I was a cop. If someone just flashed rheir CHL badge and claimed to be a cop, yeah. But If I was dumb enough to wear a CHL badge and someone ~thought~ I was a cop...thats their bad. Bus drivers have badges... if I mistake them for a cop, thats my problem.
Re: NOW I understand CHL Badges...video.
Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 4:59 pm
by speedsix
...you can't help it if you got that "lookin'-for-a-donut" face!!!
...I was standin' outside church one day and someone asked what time it was...I leaned over and sniffed the pastor...said "...about 12:30"...someone asked me how I knew and I told 'em "all preachers start smellin' like fried chicken long about 12:30 on a Sunday"...goes with the territory...
Re: NOW I understand CHL Badges...video.
Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 5:07 pm
by wgoforth
speedsix wrote:...you can't help it if you got that "lookin'-for-a-donut" face!!!
...I was standin' outside church one day and someone asked what time it was...I leaned over and sniffed the pastor...said "...about 12:30"...someone asked me how I knew and I told 'em "all preachers start smellin' like fried chicken long about 12:30 on a Sunday"...goes with the territory...
Hey.... I resemble that statement.....
Mother hen strutted around henhouse one Sunday. Other hen said "What are you acting so cocky about??" She replied, "I just had a son to enter the ministry." Yessir, my stomach is a chicken graveyard!
I think its the "standard issue moustache" I wear, and the extra 15 lbs....
Re: NOW I understand CHL Badges...video.
Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 4:14 pm
by RPB
Re: NOW I understand CHL Badges...video.
Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 4:20 pm
by RPB
Oh yeah ... here's a set, ID card and Badge
http://www.collectiblebadges.com/item/1 ... _badge.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Just kidding, I wouldn't get a badge, well, perhaps the Dick Tracy one or Star Trek ...
