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One of them should google "how to drill a cylinder" while they are surfing.

rm9792 wrote:One of them should google "how to drill a cylinder" while they are surfing.

I don't work for S&W, but I am surfing the web at work. Most of the hits have to do with lock-picking :-/

UPDATE: 1/25/12

I got a call from Jon Young at S&W Customer Service. He says getting an unfluted cylinder installed won’t be a problem, BUT:

1. When he told me on 1/3 that I could keep the screwed-up cylinder, that wasn’t true. They want it back. He’s sending me a return shipping label.

2. When he told me on 1/3 that nobody would change anything inside the gun, that all I had to do was specify in my letter that I wanted the action job left alone, that this was routine and wouldn’t be any problem, that wasn’t true. They’re going to replace the Bang, Inc springs and the C&S extended firing pin. The parts will be returned to me and I’ll have to install them again.

Jon claimed he thought what he told me was true, but when I questioned him, it turns out he claimed he didn’t know and was just guessing. He actually had no damn idea if what he was telling me was the truth. I strongly suspect he was just making it all up as he went along, telling me what he thought I wanted to hear. To say I’m displease at having smoke blown up my rear end on two separate issues by a guy who’s representing S&W is a titanic understatement.

He’s walking the gun back to the repair section. He says they expect to ship my gun tomorrow.

Right now I’m seriously POed. Up until now, this was a case of carelessness and failure of Quality Control in the manufacturing process. Now I’ve been lied to. Flat-out lied to.

I am not happy.

Three words of advice: Get over it.
I was very surprised that someone at Smith said you could keep the bad cylinder.
From a liability point of view, that's criminally stupid. What's to stop someone from putting that cylinder back into a gun and getting hurt then turning around and suing Smith?

Similar reasoning on the after market action parts. If Smith leaves them in the gun then they are assuming liability for the fit and function of someone else's product. I know of no gun company that would do this.

You are getting new factory action parts, a new non-fluted cylinder and your old parts back - all for free.
Yes, they should do this because they screwed up the first cylinder. Agreed.
But understand that the customer service guy you spoke to first was wrong.
Smith didn't lie to you. They just didn't train their customer service person properly.
I think he can be forgiven for not knowing the bad cylinder would have to be returned. As you said - this has never happened before.
That's not lying, its ignorance.
But he should have known about the after market action parts. That should be standard policy across the company.
Do yourself a favor and take a deep breath. Check the gun out thoroughly after you get it back. Test it with all the factory parts and then, if everything is perfect, put your parts back in it and enjoy the gun.
If you still can't enjoy it, you will be better off selling it and getting something else.

Perhaps he told you what he was willing to do, that seemed reasonable and proper and was overruled by a boss somewhere.

That happens, one reason I'm glad I don't have a boss anymore.

I doubt anyone at Smith and Wesson has signed off on the "policy for when we put a 7 hole cylinder in a 6 round gun." They have to make that one up on the fly.

I think you're over reacting a bit. Maybe I would feel differently if it was me, dunno.

Smith screwed up. They owe you a safe, functioning revolver. It seems they're willing to make it right. No, they didn't catch their error. To be fair, neither did you apparently until after you had cleaned, spent a fair amount of time working on it, and fired it.

To make a car analogy, if Ford had a recall on your new Mustang because the brakes were defective, you wouldn't expect them to give you the defective parts back. If you had done work to the brake system, say upgrading the pads and lines, they would likewise probably request a return to factory standard. They would probably charge you for the factory parts other than the defective one.

JALLEN wrote:Perhaps he told you what he was willing to do, that seemed reasonable and proper and was overruled by a boss somewhere.

This happens to me often. Based on my past experience with my company and what seems "reasonable" I tell the customer we just need to do "XYZ" and then the order gets up to the boss the boss (who is really nice about it) kindly informs me that we actually cannot do "Y" but actually have to do "XZA". Usually to no extra cost to the customer.

punkndisorderly, I wouldn't be upset if they'd told me right at the beginning that they wanted the cylinder back and they wouldn't send the gun back with aftermarket parts in it.

But they didn't do that. Their CS guy told me it was OK if I kept the cylinder. He said they'd leave the parts alone. That was a lie.

In the CS business, you should never promise something if you cannot make it happen. If a customer asks you a question and you don't know the answer for sure, the proper response is, "I don't know, but I'll find out and call you back". That's not what happened. Instead, he "shined me on". That's unacceptable.

Japle wrote:punkndisorderly, I wouldn't be upset if they'd told me right at the beginning that they wanted the cylinder back and they wouldn't send the gun back with aftermarket parts in it.

But they didn't do that. Their CS guy told me it was OK if I kept the cylinder. He said they'd leave the parts alone. That was a lie.

I have to say, your adding a bit of drama, and exaggeration to this whole deal. Your assumption that the CS person knowingly lied to you is just an assumption on your part, biased, and jaded because you feel you have somehow been wronged.

What others, with no dog in the fight, and without emotion are saying (to include myself) Is a mechanical assembly was incorrectly made. That assembly was returned to the manufacture and will be repaired to the correct state it should have been delivered in at no cost to you.

That sir is good customer service.

The CS rep you spoke to made an error with what he told you, an error that was pointed out to him by another rep., or manager, supervisor, whatever.. and the CS rep notified you of the mistake and change.. Said change is completely normal and to be anticipated.. .. The fact you’re not being told to send the OEM trigger parts, or charged for them is pure customer service GOOD WILL to you....

If you spoke to the CS rep, they way your post here implies S&W is to be commended for not charging you for the extra service of "fixing" your revolver after an untrained, unqualified, uncertified persons put untested, and potentially dangerous parts in the weapon.

Heck as you modified the weapon after it left the manufacture.. S&W could make a point, that you are financially responsible to return the weapon in an unmodified condition before they touch it.

That likely sounds harsh towards you.. It should, it’s an accurate observation.

A Mis-machined gun got out the door, the manufacture is correcting it, and making it as it should have been delivered for FREE. End of story.
It should make you a happy customer.. as it's not.. I would expect S&W to cut its losses, as you are going to speak ill of them no matter what they do for you, based on your conduct of this issue so far.

Bronco, I see no point in arguing with you. You think it's OK for a factory rep to make and break promises. I disagree.

I would simply insist that if they re work the action and replace your parts with their own, (to cover their own arses) than they also owe you the cost of the action job and the parts removed so you can have it re done as you had it. Afterall, you did save them a ton of money in the lawsuit that you prevented.

I think you are right to be somewhat upset, S&W (not an individual, but the company's rep) told you one thing, and now you are being told something else. What else are they going to change their minds about next?

Having been on both sides of that issue, in a different venue, my point of view runs more toward:

The CS rep should have promised the minimum; you would have to return the cylinder and the gun would be put (back?) to factory specs before it was returned. If they didn't need the cylinder, then they could return it to you and be "heros" and they could function test it as original (questionable at best considering what got out the door) and return it to you essentially NIB.

These days I deal with customers, on an almost daily basis, who insist that their brand new appliance should not be repaired by the manufacturer, but should be replaced with the same model, brand new, and I don't really blame them, I have done the same, even including a new car that was delivered defective, and then was damaged during an inexpert attempt at repairing the original problem, and that's a LONG story, eventually resolved in my favor, but not before I had to go into terrorist mode in the dealership showroom.

As my company's first line of contact with customers, I always keep it foremost in my mind that to the customer I AM the company, an attitude I learned during a long career with the phone company back when it was an "uncaring monopoly." Just try and get service like that from the phone companies today. The customer CS rep should bear that in mind, but these days I hear that reaction more and more, when you say to the CS rep "You (meaning the company) need to do a better job." their almost universal reaction is that you have insulted them personally.

I have had several complaints lodged against me by customers who felt I was not giving them what they were owed, but my boss, and her boss, and his boss have rarely asked me to explain what I did, etc, because I carefully document everything on both sides of the transaction, and if I am following company policy and procedure scrupulously then there is nothing for me to explain. I get far more compliments from my customers than complaints.

The S&W CS rep could hardly document that he did anything right, much less everything, and I would expect more from S&W, and IMHO, the best thing they could have done is just quietly replaced your gun with a new one, returned your parts, let you keep the cylinder, and hope for nice comments to the world.

jimlongley wrote:I think you are right to be somewhat upset, S&W (not an individual, but the company's rep) told you one thing, and now you are being told something else. What else are they going to change their minds about next?

Having been on both sides of that issue, in a different venue, my point of view runs more toward:

The CS rep should have promised the minimum; you would have to return the cylinder and the gun would be put (back?) to factory specs before it was returned. If they didn't need the cylinder, then they could return it to you and be "heros" and they could function test it as original (questionable at best considering what got out the door) and return it to you essentially NIB.

These days I deal with customers, on an almost daily basis, who insist that their brand new appliance should not be repaired by the manufacturer, but should be replaced with the same model, brand new, and I don't really blame them, I have done the same, even including a new car that was delivered defective, and then was damaged during an inexpert attempt at repairing the original problem, and that's a LONG story, eventually resolved in my favor, but not before I had to go into terrorist mode in the dealership showroom.

As my company's first line of contact with customers, I always keep it foremost in my mind that to the customer I AM the company, an attitude I learned during a long career with the phone company back when it was an "uncaring monopoly." Just try and get service like that from the phone companies today. The customer CS rep should bear that in mind, but these days I hear that reaction more and more, when you say to the CS rep "You (meaning the company) need to do a better job." their almost universal reaction is that you have insulted them personally.

I have had several complaints lodged against me by customers who felt I was not giving them what they were owed, but my boss, and her boss, and his boss have rarely asked me to explain what I did, etc, because I carefully document everything on both sides of the transaction, and if I am following company policy and procedure scrupulously then there is nothing for me to explain. I get far more compliments from my customers than complaints.

The S&W CS rep could hardly document that he did anything right, much less everything, and I would expect more from S&W, and IMHO, the best thing they could have done is just quietly replaced your gun with a new one, returned your parts, let you keep the cylinder, and hope for nice comments to the world.

W/ THIS

UPDATE: 1/26 @ 10:07AM:

Jon just called from S&W CS. They’ll install the unfluted cylinder (he said they have it ready to install right now) and they’ll leave my action job alone. He said they’d tested the action and it was safe, so they could ship it.

So we have some progress.

Yup, gonna jump on the wagon here. I fully understand your anger at the gun being built wrong. Totally get it. But the fact is that John just didn't know and I think the guy deserves credit for owning his mistake rather then throwing it off on another rep to be the bad guy. You are alive, intact, and getting the problem fixed for free. S&W gets a lesson in paying attention and how not to build a gun. I seriously doubt that anyone will ever have that issue again. Heck, you may have saved a life, friend. Win/Win.