Grapevine Shooting

[kjolly]

We had a unexpected turn of events this christmas that turned into emotional stress. I was carrying and locked the gun away, not concerned about myself over reacting but wanted to get it out of the grasp of others that might go over the edge.

[Oldgringo]

We had a unexpected turn of events this christmas that turned into emotional stress. I was carrying and locked the gun away, not concerned about myself over reacting but wanted to get it out of the grasp of others that might go over the edge.

...and the rest of the story is...?

[Oldgringo]

Looks like this was an Islamic "Honor killing." http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/12/islam ... liked.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That's pretty peaceful alright...

[speedsix]

...at least this one didn't ride away to do it again like the father who murdered his two daughters awhile back...anyone who's still thinking Islam's a peaceful religion would do well to read They Must Be Stopped by Brigitte Gabriel...

[Crossfire]

Islam is a peaceful and tolerant religion.... except for when it isn't.

[longtooth]

Islam is a peaceful and tolerant religion.... except for when it isn't.

Peaceful when in absolute control, tolerant when others do exactly as they say.

Violent & intolerant when someone thinks outsied the keron.

[Oldgringo]

Islam is a peaceful and tolerant religion.... except for when it isn't.

These heathens don't need a reason to kill, all they need is an excuse.

[speedsix]

...rather than being taught that the greatest thing is to LIVE for God...they're taught that the greatest thing is to DIE for their "god"...and it's all downhill from there...

[steveincowtown]

C'mon guys, so this guy was "Islamic" enough to perform an honor killing, but not so hardcore Muslim that he would allow his family to celebrate Christmas? Doesn't add up.

Money, or lack thereof, will make people do some really crazy things.

[Crossfire]

C'mon guys, so this guy was "Islamic" enough to perform an honor killing, but not so hardcore Muslim that he would allow his family to celebrate Christmas? Doesn't add up.

Money, or lack thereof, will make people do some really crazy things.

That IS confusing. I think he was just a wacko nutjob, regardless of religion.

And, on a side note, I do have to apologize, as I feel I have been a part of letting this thread go down the "discussion of religion" path, where we shall not go.

[speedsix]

...he had no control over them...they were estranged and he didn't live with them...the Santa suit may have been a "you want Santa, I'll give you Santa" thing...we may never know...we do know he wasn't at the larger, earlier family celebration...there's gonna be a lot of hearsay and rumors flyin' on this one...

[steveincowtown]

This was not an honor killing.

Honor Killings involve only women 99% of the time.

Committing Suicide shows a lack of belief in the Quran (you may insert any arguments about Suicide bombing you like, but the Quran does write against "killing yourself").

Jumping on this as some fundamentalist Islamic action is no better or different than the general public jumping on CHL'ers when ONE does something stupid.

Correlation does not equal causation.

[speedsix]

...the facts disagree with you... we don't KNOW if this was an honor killing or not...however...

...this report http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Honor_Related_Violence" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; says WAY more than 1% of honor killings are men...look down the home page at Pakistani...for part of the year only...over 1/3 are men...and that's just one country...and about 8 months of one year...so 99% AREN'T women... as this article further states... http://www.gendercide.org/case_honour.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

...committing suicide is an act done by many people of all beliefs...even though the writings of their belief say not to do it...that's hardly proof of anything...


...we may be wrong in interpreting the facts/interviews so far available to us to be conclusive either way...but it's as likely to have been one...as not...


"...Jumping on this as some fundamentalist Islamic action is no better or different than the general public jumping on CHL'ers when ONE does something stupid." it's MUCH different than tarring all with what one did...we're talking about ONE here...and NOT the group...


...maybe we'll all learn the reasons...maybe not...but facts have to trump opinions...as we have them...

[steveincowtown]

...the facts disagree with you...

There are no facts to support that this was an honor killing. The facts to the contrary are muddled at best. I have a very hard time believing some one who was a hardline enough Muslim to commit a honor killing would be celebrating Christmas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Human Rights Watch Defines Honor Killing as:

Honor killings are acts of vengeance, usually death, committed by male family members against female family members, who are held to have brought dishonor upon the family. A woman can be targeted by (individuals within) her family for a variety of reasons, including: refusing to enter into an arranged marriage, being the victim of a sexual assault, seeking a divorce—even from an abusive husband—or (allegedly) committing adultery. The mere perception that a woman has behaved in a way that "dishonors" her family is sufficient to trigger an attack on her life.

We could cut and past from the web until the cows come home.

I still hold that jumping to conclusions, making assumptions, or assigning blame based on someones race/color/creed/religion (whether focusing on a group or a single person...as you point out) it just plain wrong.

[speedsix]

...nothing wrong with saying it wasn't an honor killing as your opinion...the 99% was what the facts disprove...and that was the point I made...the information we've been given so far could lead a reasonable person to form an opinion that it was...or that it wasn't...I feel that it likely was...you don't...but your CHL analogy doesn't fit...and I'm not 'shamed of myself in the least to think it WAS...nor should I be...if more facts come out, as they probably will once they get into computers and emails and talk to more friends/family...we may or may not have 100% proof...so feel free to hold your opinion...without feeling it necessary to blame me for mine...and we'll either see or we won't...cut and paste class dismissed...