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Posted: **Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:02 am**

I'm comfortable with 9mm. I still need to find a suitable 9mm pocket pistol, though.

Posted: **Wed Jul 25, 2012 2:37 am**

I've been thinking about this since that day, too. I carry a P238 all the time, and I understand your concern for I am on your same boat. I have had enough practice with my P238 to understand my strengths and weaknesses with the pistol, and I believe the capacity is definitely a breaking point. I carry an extended Sig mag with pinky grip, but even that is making me grind my teeth.

Will I still carry it? Yes. Would I prefer it let's say to my 1911 in .45 flavor? No. But I like the size and weight of my P238 and I know for fact that I will carry it everyday. That is good enough for me.

As far as what happened in CO, I cannot play the game of what ifs in my life, because if I did so, I'd go crazy. I've been a boyscout (A real one, up to Weblo) and I understand the motto, believe you me. I am prepared. Though.. sometimes luck, and God's good graces do play a pivotal role and hopefully it will never come. And if so.. I'm ready.

All in all, be safe out there ladies and gentleman.

Posted: **Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:04 am**

Shinesintx wrote:Are you still comfortable with your EDC caliber? This whole Colorado shooting has caused me to rethink my EDC. I have been carrying a P238 Sig for about a year now. Its part of me. I put on my watch, my wedding ring, put my wallet and phone in my pocket along with my Benchmade Kulgera...and I am out the door only when my little Sig is IWB in a DM Bullard. I have been of mind that a .380 is better than nothing, but this shooter would probably not have even noticed 7 rounds of .380.

According to reports, he was wearing: Ballistic helmet, Ballistic vest, Ballistic leggings, with throat and groin protectors.

The odds of me ever being in a situation where I faced someone with this much of an advantage are extremely thin...but its got me bothered. I am thinking about either getting a P239 in .40 or wearing my G33 or CW40. I have never really cared for carrying an extra mag or thought that I needed more capacity. I am seriously thinking that my thinking is flawed.

I also made a promise to myself to start attending IDPA events. I need to be better, much better.

Am I nutts, or are you of the same mind?

No, you're not nuts for thinking about it. One distinct thing you must remember, those unfortunate souls at that theater had no choice, other to not be there, in protecting themselves. The management is responsible for that, the shooter for everything else. As for your EDC, I don't subscribe to the idea I must bring a canon with spare mags everywhere I go, but I find no fault with it either. If one person had had a gun, a .380, and could acquire a target, this plays out very differently and lives may be saved. The shooter was/is a coward and is no man. The fact that it is on your mind and mine as well tells me the next time, and there will be a next, that perhaps there will be someone there that will put the shooter down.

Posted: **Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:08 am**

snatchel wrote:I feel comfortable with my EDC, consisting of the following:

G17 + extra mag= 34+1 of Speer God Dot 147 gr

OR

G30 + extra mag = 20+1 of Hornady Crit. Def 230 gr

>>>

AND, I have made it a daily habit to carry a BUG in my pocket since I acquired one a month or so ago:

LCP = 6+1 of Remington 90 gr FMJ

Uh, wow. I feel completely under armed... Do me a favor, since no one will, can you take care of syria for me?

=================================================================================

So, I carry two guns, all the time. I think that both 9mm and 45 ACP are plenty capable of getting the
job done 99.9% of the time. In the event that a BG was armored, faceshots, hip shots, knee shots... etc.
That is assuming that shot placement worked. Realistically, if I were to shoot, it would probably be more of
a "mag-dump while retreating as quickly as I can" kinda deal.

Armor prevents bullets from going through in most cases, yes; however, I guarantee that multiple hits
to the armor, heck even a couple of hits to armor, would be sufficient to distract said BG enough to
provide a hasty retreat.

Posted: **Wed Jul 25, 2012 9:35 am**

Book nerds hate being shot. I'm a book nerd and would hate it! I carry a M&P 40 compact with a spare 15 round mag. 26 180 grain gold dots are going to get somewhere soft. Since this nonsense, I find myself rather disappointed and disgusted by 30.06 signs. I can't help but think if I'd been there, perhaps....Given the option, I'd likely have ran, especially if my family were in tow. But, if this a hole had gotten in our way I feel the 40 would have changed his temperature.

Posted: **Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:43 pm**

I changed.

I keep an LCP in my car. I carry it sometimes when I go somewhere on my way home.

My main EDC is a Kimber. I carry it sometimes. Depends on where we are going.

NOW.
I dont get out of my car with the LCP. Period.

If I am coming from home, I take the time and wear my Kimber. ALWAYS.

I just bought a new belt from the beltman, dual mag carrier, and OWB Galco Concealable. (thanks TAM)

I will carry as often as possible. Period.

Nothing is going to happen in a movie theater. I dont need my gun. Oh, wait.....

AB

Posted: **Thu Jul 26, 2012 2:37 pm**

I have to admit, this is a debate I have in my head daily. For years, I carried a Keltec 380 and hated this pistol due to constant jams. I did not trust the weapon. But I loved the size. I just purchased a Beretta Nano and I get to carry my Black Talon bullets I purchased in 1991. Yes I have ammo older than most gang banging thugs. LOL. While I like the Remora no clip holster I purchased, I am just not sure if I am comfortable enough to carry it all the time. I really want the extra size in ammo, 9mm vs 380, but I am considering going back to the 380 for ease of carry. I have been trying different positions and have yet to find one that I don't have to consistently fool with while sitting down or going about my business. Any suggestions would be great. How much of a difference between a 9mm and 380 with 2-3 shots to the chest? Is it enough to carry a 9mm instead of a 380?

Posted: **Thu Jul 26, 2012 2:44 pm**

USA#1 wrote:I have to admit, this is a debate I have in my head daily. For years, I carried a Keltec 380 and hated this pistol due to constant jams. I did not trust the weapon. But I loved the size. I just purchased a Beretta Nano and I get to carry my Black Talon bullets I purchased in 1991. Yes I have ammo older than most gang banging thugs. LOL. While I like the Remora no clip holster I purchased, I am just not sure if I am comfortable enough to carry it all the time. I really want the extra size in ammo, 9mm vs 380, but I am considering going back to the 380 for ease of carry. I have been trying different positions and have yet to find one that I don't have to consistently fool with while sitting down or going about my business. Any suggestions would be great. How much of a difference between a 9mm and 380 with 2-3 shots to the chest? Is it enough to carry a 9mm instead of a 380?

You're going to start a caliber war... we have plenty of those going on in other threads! LoL

Seriously though, the fact that your .380 doesn't work consistently is enough to carry the 9mm instead.

As far as suggestions:

If you don't have a proper gunbelt, get one.

Remora Holsters work fine for me.. I wear one all the time, appendix.

Posted: **Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:24 pm**

A little while back I selected a G19 for my EDC and I am still comfortable with that choice. This gave me pause, sure but I figure 15+1 of 9mm with a spare magazine is still better odds than nothing at all. This is a point I've made to several friends who've said "He was in body armor, what could you CCWers do?"

Posted: **Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:53 pm**

snatchel wrote:
USA#1 wrote:I have to admit, this is a debate I have in my head daily. For years, I carried a Keltec 380 and hated this pistol due to constant jams. I did not trust the weapon. But I loved the size. I just purchased a Beretta Nano and I get to carry my Black Talon bullets I purchased in 1991. Yes I have ammo older than most gang banging thugs. LOL. While I like the Remora no clip holster I purchased, I am just not sure if I am comfortable enough to carry it all the time. I really want the extra size in ammo, 9mm vs 380, but I am considering going back to the 380 for ease of carry. I have been trying different positions and have yet to find one that I don't have to consistently fool with while sitting down or going about my business. Any suggestions would be great. How much of a difference between a 9mm and 380 with 2-3 shots to the chest? Is it enough to carry a 9mm instead of a 380?
You're going to start a caliber war... we have plenty of those going on in other threads! LoL

Seriously though, the fact that your .380 doesn't work consistently is enough to carry the 9mm instead.

As far as suggestions:

If you don't have a proper gunbelt, get one.

Remora Holsters work fine for me.. I wear one all the time, appendix.

No caliber war from me, except to say that I am not comfortable with .380, and I am comfortable with 9mm. I do believe that 2 or 3 9mm to the COM will be a lot more effective than 2 or 3 .380s would be...primarily due to deeper penetration. Plus, in winter, a 9mm has a much better chance of penetrating heaving clothing than a .380. Will a .380 stop or kill a man? Yes, it will. However, if you look at the statistics for "one shot stops" for both .380 and 9mm, you're almost certainly going to find that 9mm has a much better percentage (for you.....not so much for the bad guy). That said, a lot of it is dependent on how much fight is in the bad guy. People have been shot multiple times with 9mm or .45 and stayed in the fight. Ditto people shot with .357 magnums and 12 gauge shotguns. Not always, but it isn't unheard of. I remember the first few gunshot patients I helped to treat. I remember being surprised that they were, for the most part, conscious, lucid, and clearly able to describe what happened. They were badly hurt, but not totalled. If fighting for their very lives, they probably could have done so. The point is that even acknowledged powerhouse pistol cartridges are not magic hammers of Thor. So given that, why carry an inferior cartridge if there is any way around it?

Rifle bullets on the other hand are a completely different animal. When my dad was shot in the chest by a Japanese Arisaka rifle on Iwo, he said that it felt like had had been kicked by a mule and it knocked him down and simply flattened him for a couple of minutes until he could get his wind back. They are simply devastating....which is why if I knew there was going to be trouble and I couldn't avoid it, I'd bring a rifle every single time.

Three or four years ago, when people said that they couldn't find a pocketable 9mm or .45, it was mostly true. But it isn't true any longer. My Kahr PM9 is a tiny bit bigger than the Kel-Tec P3AT, but it truly is a tiny difference when it comes to concealment. The PM9 is no more difficult to conceal than the P3AT was, but 6 rounds of 9mm with a 7 round reload beats 6 rounds of .380 with a 6 round reload every single time. The fact is, you can get an relatively affordable and pocketable pistol in 9mm or .45 ACP these days. So why bother with the .380? If that's what you've already got, and you can't afford to buy another gun, then you carry what you have. But if you're in the market for a pocketable pistol of sufficient power, I wouldn't waste my time on a .380 when there are so many good choices in 9mm/.45 ACP.

Posted: **Thu Jul 26, 2012 4:12 pm**

SQLGeek wrote:A little while back I selected a G19 for my EDC and I am still comfortable with that choice. This gave me pause, sure but I figure 15+1 of 9mm with a spare magazine is still better odds than nothing at all. This is a point I've made to several friends who've said "He was in body armor, what could you CCWers do?"

Body armor isn't a panacea either. Ask someone who's been shot up close whether it hurt or not. It can the wind out of you. A double tap into body armor can drive you to your knees if it hurts enough. Beyond that the two North Hollywood B of A bank robbers were riddled with bullets, despite their armor, before they ultimately died. When a bullet enters just under your armpit, where there is no armor, and transects your aortic arch, it doesn't care if you're wearing armor, and you're still going to bleed out in about 15 seconds or less.

Video of a bullet-proof vest demonstration. He is shot by a Glock 19 with a 124 grain FMJ while wearing a vest certified to NIJ Level IIIA + protection. The actual shot is fired a little after 5:00 on the video:
[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=vjdd-1w9WVM[/youtube]

Warning, very small amount of blood, LOTS OF BRUISING!!

5 minutes after being shot in vest: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-rc5-xU1T5r4/T ... +after.jpg

1 hour after being shot in vest: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-n1KgcIqSkWo/T ... +after.jpg

1 day after being shot in vest: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-0gevEZqTyNA/T ... +after.jpg

I think a 9mm is probably sufficient, most of the time. OTH, this guy would have still been in the fight with just one shot, thanks to his vest. But when you see his reaction, you'll understand why 2 or 3 quick shots into his COM would most likely disable him.....unless he was amped up on some kind of drug.....long enough for you to be able to either follow up or get away—which ever seems the best alternative at the time.

Posted: **Thu Jul 26, 2012 4:31 pm**

The Annoyed Man wrote:
SQLGeek wrote:A little while back I selected a G19 for my EDC and I am still comfortable with that choice. This gave me pause, sure but I figure 15+1 of 9mm with a spare magazine is still better odds than nothing at all. This is a point I've made to several friends who've said "He was in body armor, what could you CCWers do?"
Body armor isn't a panacea either. Ask someone who's been shot up close whether it hurt or not. It can the wind out of you. A double tap into body armor can drive you to your knees if it hurts enough. Beyond that the two North Hollywood B of A bank robbers were riddled with bullets, despite their armor, before they ultimately died. When a bullet enters just under your armpit, where there is no armor, and transects your aortic arch, it doesn't care if you're wearing armor, and you're still going to bleed out in about 15 seconds or less.

Video of a bullet-proof vest demonstration. He is shot by a Glock 19 with a 124 grain FMJ while wearing a vest certified to NIJ Level IIIA + protection. The actual shot is fired a little after 5:00 on the video:
[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=vjdd-1w9WVM[/youtube]

Warning, very small amount of blood, LOTS OF BRUISING!!

5 minutes after being shot in vest: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-rc5-xU1T5r4/T ... +after.jpg

1 hour after being shot in vest: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-n1KgcIqSkWo/T ... +after.jpg

1 day after being shot in vest: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-0gevEZqTyNA/T ... +after.jpg

I think a 9mm is probably sufficient, most of the time. OTH, this guy would have still been in the fight with just one shot, thanks to his vest. But when you see his reaction, you'll understand why 2 or 3 quick shots into his COM would most likely disable him.....unless he was amped up on some kind of drug.....long enough for you to be able to either follow up or get away—which ever seems the best alternative at the time.

Haha. I love watching this video. This guy is a champ

Posted: **Thu Jul 26, 2012 5:57 pm**

snatchel wrote:Haha. I love watching this video. This guy is a champ

Did you look at the bruising in those three pictures? It was almost enough to convince me that I'd just rather be shot!

Posted: **Thu Jul 26, 2012 6:15 pm**

knotquiteawake wrote:Caliber wars! Round 100! FIGHT!!!

Seriously. Again? Anyways, I am comfortable carrying my .32acp Seecamp. Its there, always, just in case. If someone attempts to mug me, rob me, or carjack me its there and I feel comfortably deploying it to stop the threat. I certainly feel that a larger caliber would be more effective but I don't feel as comfortable carrying anything larger nor do I have the money to buy anything larger caliber. Its mostly the money though. I'm not going to stop carrying or go into debt or spend a week on the couch (exile from the bedroom for unauthorized purchases!) to buy a gun.

Just a week? I would get another gun and do the week willingly. LOL.... Still, as you said any gun is better than no gun at all. As for me I would not wish to get shot even with a .22. Its going to hurt.

Posted: **Thu Jul 26, 2012 6:21 pm**

cubbyjg wrote:
Shinesintx wrote:According to reports, he was wearing: Ballistic helmet, Ballistic vest, Ballistic leggings, with throat and groin protectors.
If the reports are true, does it even matter what pistol caliber a person carries when confronted by an individual wielding a rifle, handgun and body armor? I carry either 9mm or 45acp and will continue to do so. IMO, carry what you are proficient with and are willing to carry at ALL times when possible.

For someone who is supposedly off balance, the shooter in Aurora, Colorado seems to have put in a lot of prep time before doing the actual shooting. Kind of make you wonder how many more like him are out there.

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