TexasCHLforum.com

dustyb wrote:[quote="Right2Carry

Sounds like a good experiance, but I don't think we are required to notify a Prison Gaurd that we have a CHL or that we are carrying. I don't think they qualify as a LEO, which to my understanding is the only entity we must disclose to. It appears that their own rules state I can lock it up in the vehicle in a secured compartment before entering.

One has to wonder how they would react to finding a gun in your trunk when they search it.

One thing to keep in mind, you may not have to "legally" disclose you're carrying to a CO, but they are not required to let you on the unit. If you are visting an inmate, it is a good way to get removed from the visitation list. Although you may not "legally" have to inform a CO you are carrying, it would be prudent to do so. I personally think "securing" your firearm in a trunk, compartment, etc., is a pretty small accomodation to make at a prison. Understandably, prison staff are concerned with the security of their units and their employees. Although the law does not "require" it now, I personally would not mind seeing the law ammended to require securing your firearms at a prison.

Most CO's would be pretty calm finding a gun in your trunk, as long as it was not a surprise. Quite a few CO's and staff are CHL holders. I asked a friend who still works there, and employees are also allowed to have firearms in their vehicles as long as they are "secured"

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Unless I missed something here, according to TDCJ rules state only that the firearm must be secured before entering the grounds. It makes no mention of informing the CO's that you have one in a secured location. I don't think they can deny you entry providing you are following the rules they have established. Nowhere does it say the CO should ask you to unload the weapon, count the rounds and keep them in seperate locations.

The rules for visitation that were posted say to secure the firearm prior to entering the grounds, which I take to mean prior to the initial gaurd shack where the vehicle search takes place. It says nothing about declaring your firearm, unloading your firearm, and keeping the ammunition and firearm seperate.

common courtesy goes a long way, and I understand that, but I just don't want the hassle of a new or having a bad day CO, giving me crap about my firearm. I find that so far it seems that most CO's have been accomadating for those that have had experiance with carrying at a State Prison.

I also don't like the fact that the Rules that were posted having a 2002 date on them. It seems to me that TDCJ could have something posted a little more current even if there haven't been any changes lately.

I just want to follow the law without the hassle of bending over backwards and jumping through hoops to meet everyone's interpretation of what the law means.

KBCraig wrote: Lawyers don't have a "legal right to visit" clients in prison. I have seen lawyers denied visits, and I've seen legal visits terminated.

OK, but some inmates at some points do have a legal right to counsel, right? The point is that there are people with legitimate business in the prison complex who are being forced to abide by arbitrary rules not compliant with state law. Again, I'm not saying the 'rules' are right / wrong, but if the rules need to be different, change the law!

My concern is the bigger picture across agencies / gov't entities statewide, who gets to make the rules?? Maybe I'm missing something, but I thought it was the legislature.

BTW, I would do what everyone else says they would do. I would submit to the rules if I needed to visit a prison. I know I wouldn't win that argument at the prison gate.

I just hate to see these prisons make their own rules, the Plano ISD post 30.06 signs (I think we mostly agree they are non-binding, but may result in a free ride in a patrol car), the city I live in have an ordinance against CHL carry in any city owned building, etc. I am law abiding and I expect these government agencies (who, by the way, work for me. I don't work for them) to live by the law as well.

When I worked on the Coffield unit (1995-1998) there was a secure box placed outside of the radio/front picket. You sent your CHL up the rope and they sent you down a key. You retained the key until shift was over. I am sure there have been changens since those early days of Texas CHL. It was that units immediate remedy to keep guns out of the parking lot by those that paid attention to the rules.

As unpopular as this statement might be, I do not feel that there is any need for anyone to leave a firearm inside of their car in a prison parking lot Things go much smoother when an inmate is not armed. That said, I would surely not want to deny anyone the right to secure it while they are taking care of their business.

Jason

GrillKing wrote:I just hate to see these prisons make their own rules, the Plano ISD post 30.06 signs (I think we mostly agree they are non-binding, but may result in a free ride in a patrol car), the city I live in have an ordinance against CHL carry in any city owned building, etc. I am law abiding and I expect these government agencies (who, by the way, work for me. I don't work for them) to live by the law as well.

In 2001 my wife was working on her masters to become a principal. Her School Law class had a discussion about guns on campus. She had just finished her CHL class and brought up the "premises" defintion. The professor and several know-it-alls, mostly people who were already school administrators, told her she was wrong and thought she was crazy. The next week she brought the Texas CHL handbook the DPS sends out and showed the class. Her professor was not particularly happy to be proved wrong and moved on to a new topic. Most of the class said "it violated their school policies" and they would not be willing to go through the hastle to put it to the test. I am curious if any of their opinons have changed since then.

jbirds1210 wrote:As unpopular as this statement might be, I do not feel that there is any need for anyone to leave a firearm inside of their car in a prison parking lot Things go much smoother when an inmate is not armed. That said, I would surely not want to deny anyone the right to secure it while they are taking care of their business.

Jason

Let's change the law if that's the route we want to go!!! If we do, however, there has to be provision for CHL's to secure their handgun.

jbirds1210 wrote:When I worked on the Coffield unit (1995-1998) there was a secure box placed outside of the radio/front picket. You sent your CHL up the rope and they sent you down a key. You retained the key until shift was over. I am sure there have been changens since those early days of Texas CHL. It was that units immediate remedy to keep guns out of the parking lot by those that paid attention to the rules.

As unpopular as this statement might be, I do not feel that there is any need for anyone to leave a firearm inside of their car in a prison parking lot Things go much smoother when an inmate is not armed. That said, I would surely not want to deny anyone the right to secure it while they are taking care of their business.

Jason

Their shouldn't be any inmates around the parking area anyway, right?

Right2Carry wrote:Their shouldn't be any inmates around the parking area anyway, right?

While that seems to be the common sense answer, we're talking TDC, where lifers go out on gate passes to work the field crew.

Isn't Huntsville where execution's are carried out? If so then make sure if you go on a day they are having one that you stay beyond 1000 feet with your Concealed Handgun.

ctxpta wrote:Isn't Huntsville where execution's are carried out? If so then make sure if you go on a day they are having one that you stay beyond 1000 feet with your Concealed Handgun.

You must stay 1000+ feet beyond the 'premises' (building) where an execution is to be carried out.

Right2Carry wrote:

ManfromTexas wrote:Hi,

I'm new here but I can say I just got back from Beto I. They do search the car (more or less) and under the hood. I told them I had a CHL and they wanted to see the gun (a Glock), unload the weapon, count the bullets. Then they had me put the gun in the glove compartment and the ammo in the consol box. When leaving they inspected to make sure the gun was still there and the counted the ammo to make sure no rounds were missing. That was ok to me as they are conserened of a gun or ammo getting to the prisoners (It sure isn't a resort there!)

Sounds like a good experiance, but I don't think we are required to notify a Prison Gaurd that we have a CHL or that we are carrying. I don't think they qualify as a LEO, which to my understanding is the only entity we must disclose to. It appears that their own rules state I can lock it up in the vehicle in a secured compartment before entering.

One has to wonder how they would react to finding a gun in your trunk when they search it.

Just FYI, some COs are LEOs (they get better pay if they are...and also have more oportunites for off duty jobs). I know of several COs that are also certified peace officers...they may not patrol but that does not mean they are not LEOs. If I recall correctly, when ever a LEO asks you for ID you must disclose the CHL. Therefore, if a CO asks for ID, I would be inclined to disclose as I do not know if the CO is a LEO or not and I would rather error on the side of caution.

jbirds1210 wrote:When I worked on the Coffield unit (1995-1998) there was a secure box placed outside of the radio/front picket. You sent your CHL up the rope and they sent you down a key. You retained the key until shift was over. I am sure there have been changens since those early days of Texas CHL. It was that units immediate remedy to keep guns out of the parking lot by those that paid attention to the rules.

As unpopular as this statement might be, I do not feel that there is any need for anyone to leave a firearm inside of their car in a prison parking lot Things go much smoother when an inmate is not armed. That said, I would surely not want to deny anyone the right to secure it while they are taking care of their business.

Jason

I agree that the vehicle isn't the most secure storage; however, getting these institutions to provide secure storage is an uphill battle.

pt145ss wrote:

Right2Carry wrote:

ManfromTexas wrote:Hi,

I'm new here but I can say I just got back from Beto I. They do search the car (more or less) and under the hood. I told them I had a CHL and they wanted to see the gun (a Glock), unload the weapon, count the bullets. Then they had me put the gun in the glove compartment and the ammo in the consol box. When leaving they inspected to make sure the gun was still there and the counted the ammo to make sure no rounds were missing. That was ok to me as they are conserened of a gun or ammo getting to the prisoners (It sure isn't a resort there!)

Sounds like a good experiance, but I don't think we are required to notify a Prison Gaurd that we have a CHL or that we are carrying. I don't think they qualify as a LEO, which to my understanding is the only entity we must disclose to. It appears that their own rules state I can lock it up in the vehicle in a secured compartment before entering.

One has to wonder how they would react to finding a gun in your trunk when they search it.

Just FYI, some COs are LEOs (they get better pay if they are...and also have more oportunites for off duty jobs). I know of several COs that are also certified peace officers...they may not patrol but that does not mean they are not LEOs. If I recall correctly, when ever a LEO asks you for ID you must disclose the CHL. Therefore, if a CO asks for ID, I would be inclined to disclose as I do not know if the CO is a LEO or not and I would rather error on the side of caution.

I think he would need to disclose and prove that he is a LEO.

There are inmates that walk the parking lot on a regular basis removing trash and debris. Recently, an inmate knocked a contractor down and took her car! Remember, play the "What if" game. What if an inmate were to break into your car? What if someone forgot to lock the car? If I remember correctly, they want the firearm in a locked container inside the locked vehicle. While a warden cannot take away from the rules, he can and will enhance them to suit his respective unit on an "as needed" basis. Your best bet is to let the CO know at the highway gate, he will call his duty warden for further instructions and you will enter the facility. A little common courtesy will go a long way!

Starvin wrote:While a warden cannot take away from the rules, he can and will enhance them to suit his respective unit on an "as needed" basis.

By 'enhancing' the rules, the warden is taking away. He does not have the legal authority to do so. I agree, common courtesy goes a long way, but where do you draw the line on 'enhancing' the rules? I understand the issue with CHL and prisons, but the correct way to solve the problem is to change the law.

Chuck Rosenthal enhances the rules. The Plano ISD enhances the rules. The city of San Antonio enhances the rules. The law is the law. Period. Enhancement comes through the legislature.

I don't think it would fly if I enhanced the rules and drove 90mph because I am running a little late. Again, I EXPECT those in authority, who work for me the taxpayer, to follow the rules, just as I do.

I'm done ranting now!!!!