TexasCHLforum.com

Ok, this is going rather well...

If I really wanted to stir the pot, and get a few peoples bowels in an uproar...

Lets not forget that no one shoved a CHL in your pocket, and no one forced you to carry a gun in the first place...So we few who took the responsibility to jump through these hoops to obtain this certification should never be afforded the opportunity (whether we are right or wrong in our opinion) to voice an opinion on what some may consider to be a comment thats a bit over the top???

Thats like me having the correct attitutde that I broke the law, and that I have accepted the fact that I am going to be cited for that infraction, and be punished financially for it...

Thus being told to "lets keep it there." (in whatever context you want to put that into)

And my response would be to the Law Enforcement Officer, "Ok, lets make sure you write that citation in the right colored ink now, Ok?"

But I just think that would be stirring a pot a little too much...And I do not believe (in real life) I (and many others here) extrude an attitude on the street that would draw a comment like "lets keep it there." in the first place...

Attitudes clash out in the world...Discussions "here" clear up things...Learning from others is priceless...

flintknapper wrote:

txinvestigator wrote:

kauboy wrote:Its not inconsistent at all. If I am in an accident obviously caused by another person, and I have done nothing wrong, AND I have presented him with a CHL, there is no need to remind me of where to keep my gun. It wasn't out when he showed up, and it won't be coming out. Why can't we just be trusted by officers? Statistics prove that a CHL'er is not the person that he should be worried about. I think too many officers let their personal opinions enter into their jobs when they are supposed to be somewhat objective.

NO, statistics do NOT show that. All they show is that CHL holders are more law abiding than the general public. I have taught HUNDREDS of CHL students, and I can tell you that their propensity for being careless, stupid and jerks is the same as the general population. They don't WANT to be, it is just human nature. If an admonition to keep your gun holstered from a cop bothers you, then it is YOUR problem.

I have BTDT with citizens.

This is not a stab at CHL holders. Its just that there is a certain percentage of people who are jerks, stupid and careless. That same percentage seems to filter down. I don't think that those who are serious enough and smart enough to seek out places like this fit that description.

But it is not reasonable for you to expect the general population to think, act and behave like you. (YOU is used in the general sense of members here, not to anyone specific)

And I will add that officers that are "objective" when it comes to their safety tend to get dead more than those who learn to pay attention to what they have learned "personally". I would rather go home alive and you "offended" than walk on egg shells and get dead.

Hmmmm...

If we are to accept this line of reasoning, then wouldn't some LEO fall into the same category?

BINGO!!! My point exactly. Thanks TXI for seeing my POV.

I live in Harris Co (unfortunately), yet this statement would not have bothered me. I would have taken it to mean that he simply did not wish to see it or take it from me.

Now if he had asked for my gun, it would have bothered me. I would have given it to him, but it would have bothered me.

Yup ... Me 2 ...

flintknapper wrote:If we are to accept this line of reasoning, then wouldn't some LEO fall into the same category?

Yep, they sure do. I am a firm believer that if you have any group large enough, some percentage is going to be bad people. I usually say 10%. Some groups have more and some have less, but all have some bad people.

And I don't care if it is CHL's, LEO's, Religious leaders, Boy Scouts, Teachers, or Mothers. Any large group will have some bad in it. All we can do is find them and weed them out as we do.

k5dmb wrote: . . . He saw the CHL and asked, "Are you armed?"; I said, "Yes sir", to which he asked "Where is it?". I told him, "Right hand side.", and he said "Then just leave it there." and handed back the CHL.

I can see why the comment "Then just leave it there" would bother some people, but I have a pretty thick skin, and would probably just reply "OK" or "I was planning to" in a neutral tone . . .

He's not doing a warrantless vehicle search, he's not attempting to force his way into one's home without a warrant, he's not even doing the disarm the law allows him to . . .

Annoying choice of words, yes, but annoying him back under these circumstances doesn't seem to carry any upside. Escalating this puts me in mind of the old story about wrestling with a pig . . . all you get is dirty, and the pig, well, he enjoys it.

Wow, lots of interesting comments....

To reiterate, I was very happy with this LEO's professionalism. He properly identified this situation and instructed me to maintain the status quo.

He didn't make light of the situation; like "Don't point yours at me, and I won't point mine at you"... though funny isn't nearly as professional. As to "then just leave it there", I clearly understood and complied.

Cheers to all

David

By reading these three pages, I thought you were, indeed, pleased with the handling of this situation.

I liked what one poster on another thread said about what the LEO said when he was handed the CHL: "Don't show me yours and I won't show you mine."

Russ

HankB wrote:Escalating this puts me in mind of the old story about wrestling with a pig . . . all you get is dirty, and the pig, well, he enjoys it.

...that a cop joke?

After reading over the previous pages, I have come to the belief that while the Police Officer's comment was just a serious of words, it would have been his verbal tone that set whether or not any malice was intended.
The original poster, having indicated that his experience was positive, would lead one to believe that the Police Officer's intent was certainly devoid of sarcasm, discourtesy, or any malcontent.

just my 2 pence.

Good story.

I've had about 6 or 7 encounteres with LEOs since getting my CHL.

All have either been positive or neutral (nothing was said about it)

My first was in Crossett county Arkansas. I went up there to see the light with a friend (google search of Crossett Light will explain that further) I was in the middle of the woods on a country road standing there with a friend flashing flashlight and car lights. We see a light coming up the road and realize it is a car. We get out of the road and get back in the car to allow them to be able to go by peacefully.
It is a pickup truck. It stops a few feet in front of my car. About the same time he gets there another pickup comes out of nowhere behind me. (WHAT IS GOING ON). Images of Deliverance are going through my head.
A door on the one in front of me opens. A figure gets out. I relax when I see a LEO uniform as he walks in front of his headlights.
He says hello and asks to see some ID. I show him DL, Insurance and CHL. On seeing the CHL he says, "Okay! That's what I'm looking for! Do you have the gun on or about your person?" I tell him it is on my right hip. He asks me to step out so he can secure it. Keeping my hands in plain view (up) I step out of the car. He opens my sport coat and says (to his partner from the other car standing behind me with a shotgun pointed up) "oh he's got a wheelgun!" He pulls my Colt Official Police out of the holster. Looks at it in his headlights. After a few seconds of admiring it, hands it back to me and say's "Here y'a go, I think you're okay." I holster it. Still keeping my hands up. I say, looking at both cars in front and behind me, "so what's going on?" They say I can put my hands down, it's okay "as long as I don't go like 'this'" (he says as he mimics a grab at his holster . He pulls his XD 9mm out and shows it to me in fun. We chat for a few moments. They realize we are probably out there to see the light. They were just making a routine check. Said a lot of people come out there with guns that aren't supposed to have them.
We each went our separate ways and that was the end.

Later I got pulled over in marshall by a city policeman. He let me off with a warning for speeding. I showed him my CHL as he had approached me in an official manner. He told me that was great that I had one, just keep the gun where it is and we would get along great, one of them (LEO) might need my help some day. Later another LEO from marshall pulled me over, she noticed I had, then, had a Florida and Texas CHL, ask why. I told her at the time I got it we didn't have Alabama in reciprocity whereas Florida did and I would be moving to Louisiana before the year was out. She let me off with a warning for running a redlight and let me go.
I got pulled over in Corrigan Texas, she let me off with a warning. I showed my CHL and she asks what kind of gun I carry. I told a .38 Spl revolver. She was stunned. "really." I smiled and said "I guess when you think of guys my age you expect a Glock or a 1911." She nodded, "yeah." She paused and then said, "When I think of revolver I think of....well....." I finished, "Old men? ) "yeah!" Told her revolvers were just my personal taste.

There have been several others, but the policeman didn't say a word about the gun or the CHL. In fact, one DPS officer about three weeks ago just handed the CHL back and said "oh, here I don't need to see that. Just need to see your drivers license for a minute" as he filled out a warning slip. As I got down the road thinking about it, I almost wondered if he noticed it was a CHL because he handed everything, save and except DL, back to me so fast and didn't say a word about a gun.

pbandjelly wrote:

HankB wrote:Escalating this puts me in mind of the old story about wrestling with a pig . . . all you get is dirty, and the pig, well, he enjoys it.

...that a cop joke?

Actually, it wasn't intended to be, I was just repeating an old proverb that dealt with picking your fights . . . but in the context, I guess some might read extra meaning into it.

It could be that the LEO has seen other CHLs anxious to take it out an show him or anticipating that he will want to.

You might have hit the nail on the head...

I can only speak from my own experience regarding a similar circumstance. A few years back we were investigating an accident and my partner and I were getting everyone's information when one of the drivers involved produced his CHL along with his DL just like he was supposed to. My partner asked the question that most LEOs ask, "Are you armed?" to which the driver answered in the affirmative. My partner asked the usual next question, "Where is your gun?" to which the driver answered, "Right here." He then pulled up his shirt, placed his hand on the grip of the gun (which was in an IWB holster) and proceeded to pull it out.

Let me put this in perspective for you so that you will understand what happened next. While this conversation was taking place between my partner and this driver I was about 10 yards away gathering information from witnesses. I had just finished up my notes and had turned to walk back to my partner when I look up and see this individual lift up his shirt, put his hand on a gun and start to draw it out. Also, the gun was away from my partner and hidden from his view.

I immediately yelled gun! - drew my weapon, and instructed (yelled at) him not to move. My partner yelled at him to leave the gun right where it was and not to move. Several people who were involved in the wreck, or who were witnesses, scattered and ducked.

My partner asked the CHL holder what the heck was he thinking by taking the actions he did. He replied, "Oh, I thought you would take it from me so I was getting it out for you." (now might be the time to remember that old saying - "The pathway to Hell is paved with good intentions.")

We proceeded to calm everyone down (us included) and continued with the accident investigation. We never took his gun from him but we did instruct him to not assume anything in future dealings with LEOs and to only do what they asked him to do. Nice guy but he just made some bad choices. Hopefully it was a good lesson and not only will he not repeat it but will share his experiences with other CHL holders and perhaps prevent a similar type situation.

When all of this was over my partner and I talked about what could have been done different. We both came to the conclusion that if we run into another CHL holder our question to them will be, "I need to know if you're armed and if you are just let me know where the gun is, there's no need to show it to me."

Now after reading some of the posts on this thread I can see where some of you might think we would be insulting you by making such a statement, but perhaps you can see why we would do so. Again, I can't speak for the Harris County deputy but perhaps that why he made that statement.