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Re: Open Carry with permission?
Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:21 am
by G26ster
Sec. 46.15. NONAPPLICABILITY.
(a) Sections 46.02 and 46.03 do not apply to:
(3) is engaging in lawful hunting, fishing, or other sporting activity on the immediate premises where the activity is conducted, or is en route between the premises and the actor's residence, motor vehicle, or watercraft, if the weapon is a type commonly used in the activity;
Re: Open Carry with permission?
Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:45 pm
by TexasGal
ScottDLS wrote:EEllis wrote:Hasn't everyone here either seen or opened carried themselves at a gun range? If there isn't specific legislation against it, as in the case of establishments that serve alcohol, why would it be different for a public gun range vs. some other business?
There is an exception in 46.15 for engaging in a "sporting activity", like target shooting.
Well that explains the ability to OC at gun stores...finding ammo has become a sporting activity for most people.
Re: Open Carry with permission?
Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:57 pm
by recaffeination
I hope most forum members know better than to get legal advice from gun store commandos
Re: Open Carry with permission?
Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:48 pm
by JKTex
EEllis wrote:Hasn't everyone here either seen or opened carried themselves at a gun range? If there isn't specific legislation against it, as in the case of establishments that serve alcohol, why would it be different for a public gun range vs. some other business?
How or what does an establishment that serves alcohol have to do with a property owner giving permission to carry on or in his property? Just serving alcohol doens't mean anything if you're making a connection to a business owner giving permission to carry in his business that sells booze.
Re: Open Carry with permission?
Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:48 pm
by JKTex
recaffeination wrote:I hope most forum members know better than to get legal advice from gun store commandos
Oh, is that a bad thing?
Re: Open Carry with permission?
Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:53 am
by stevie_d_64
I think what we need to do, since warmer months are coming up soon, we need to have some private parties, backyard BBQ's, etc etc etc...And just open carry...Get it out of your system...
Out of normal public view...Until the law of the land is tweeked to favor open carry, I'm going to stay concealed as best I can...
Honestly, I used to feel like I wanted everyone to know I carry a firearm, but these days, I'd rather it be a surprise for everyone in the event I have to use it for lawful-self-defensive purposes...
Wearing a firearm in view of general population is sill like (perception) shoving a gun up under someones nose...You are not going to be a good ambassador of the Second amendment by shoving a gun up under someones nose...
There are too many people out there who do not, and will not understand this cincept no matter how hard you try...Even in the states that do allow open carry, I have not come across a single person doing so in my travels...I tried it in another state, and it didn't even matter...
Re: Open Carry with permission?
Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:56 am
by GrillKing
JKTex wrote:recaffeination wrote:I hope most forum members know better than to get legal advice from gun store commandos
Oh, is that a bad thing?
I always thought it was a good way to save a few bucks!
Re: Open Carry with permission?
Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:05 am
by EEllis
How or what does an establishment that serves alcohol have to do with a property owner giving permission to carry on or in his property? Just serving alcohol doens't mean anything if you're making a connection to a business owner giving permission to carry in his business that sells booze.
Actually it does matter because there are specific Tabc regs about it.
Re: Open Carry with permission?
Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:09 am
by JKTex
I think the topic was/is about a carrying on private property with the consent of the owner.
Unfortunately anything around the topic of carrying a firearm, especially openly carrying, brings out the self righteous who feel they need to dictate what is right for someone else and those that make things out to be a bigger deal than they really are. Personal responsibility and courtesy are still king.
I'm still curious if someone can, with legal support, speak to the extent of a private property owners rights.
Re: Open Carry with permission?
Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:16 am
by JKTex
EEllis wrote:
How or what does an establishment that serves alcohol have to do with a property owner giving permission to carry on or in his property? Just serving alcohol doens't mean anything if you're making a connection to a business owner giving permission to carry in his business that sells booze.
Actually it does matter because there are specific Tabc regs about it.
You're using very dangerous generalizations though. Based on your reply, I assume you were using it as an example of a business owner for example, of a business that sells booze. In that case, my comment is still true. It would only not be true under very specific circumstances but in general as you stated, it's true. In other words, you can't make a general statement like that without misleading people and that's where ignorance of law is often bred. Lord knows there are enough people that don't understand laws that pertain to them or know just enough to dangerous enough to get themselves in big trouble.
But again, the topic is private property owners authorizing someone to carry openly on their property.
Re: Open Carry with permission?
Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:57 am
by ScottDLS
JKTex wrote:EEllis wrote:Hasn't everyone here either seen or opened carried themselves at a gun range? If there isn't specific legislation against it, as in the case of establishments that serve alcohol, why would it be different for a public gun range vs. some other business?
How or what does an establishment that serves alcohol have to do with a property owner giving permission to carry on or in his property? Just serving alcohol doens't mean anything if you're making a connection to a business owner giving permission to carry in his business that sells booze.
Presumably because if the private property owner is the proprietor of a TABC licensed premises, a non-employee carrying there would be committing a felony by carrying in the establishment, even with permission of the owner.
Re: Open Carry with permission?
Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:56 pm
by EEllis
ScottDLS wrote:
Presumably because if the private property owner is the proprietor of a TABC licensed premises, a non-employee carrying there would be committing a felony by carrying in the establishment, even with permission of the owner.
there are regs that limit the carrying of firearms to management only so if the owner cant even allow all employees to legally open carry it goes without saying a non-employee wouldn't be able to carry.
Re: Open Carry with permission?
Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:23 pm
by Keith B
EEllis wrote:ScottDLS wrote:
Presumably because if the private property owner is the proprietor of a TABC licensed premises, a non-employee carrying there would be committing a felony by carrying in the establishment, even with permission of the owner.
there are regs that limit the carrying of firearms to management only
so if the owner cant even allow all employees to legally open carry it goes without saying a non-employee wouldn't be able to carry.
Yes they can. This could be applied to all employees if they are 'supervising' the business.
(b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:
.............
[(7)] holds an alcoholic beverage permit or license or
is an employee of a holder of an alcoholic beverage permit or
license if the person is supervising the operation of the permitted
or licensed premises; or.....
Re: Open Carry with permission?
Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:03 pm
by EEllis
Yes they can. This could be applied to all employees if they are 'supervising' the business.
Sure and if everyone was carrying then they would most likely arrest everyone and then let the judge decide who was a "supervisor" because they would know it's obvious bull and dislike people trying to get over on them. I'm sure after everyone speeds tens of thousands of dollars you would be proved right, or quite possibly not.
Re: Open Carry with permission?
Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:56 pm
by 03Lightningrocks
Well, I'm going to stick with my "guns" on approval to open carry on my property. Don't get the wrong idea here. Nobody in our office is or has open carried yet. There are six of us that are in the office all the time and we all have our CHL's. it only came up because we had a disgruntled ex-employee acting out a bit and two in the office were concerned. One of the two seems to have trouble figuring out how he likes to carry concealed while wearing a tucked in shirt. I have tried to show him how to solve the problem but he doesn't like the options. I told him that he or anyone else that wanted to carry open in our offices had my permission. I did make sure and warn them not to walk outside by accident as I don't have control of the property outside of our offices.
There are a few hand guns that reside in desk drawers while their owners are at work. One more comment. We aren't in a dangerous environment, but since when does that mean some nut won't come in off the street and ruin our day!
I really would like to read what the lawyers or police officers amongst us have to say about this. In plain English. Is anything i just described illegal?