suthdj wrote:Double edge sword. If the owners kept thier pets on a leash/in thier yard that would not happen.
Ever kept a cat on a leash? Or in your yard?
Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea.
- Robert A Heinlein.
Nope I would not own a cat, but just the same it can be kept in the house and I know they escape yadda yadda yadda bottom line is when your pet is dead there is only 1 person to blame.
Why should a cat be kept in the house. It is not against the law or even against courtesy where I live for cats to roam. We fixed our cat so he is not out making babies in this world. He has his shots. He stays generally in the area. Cats will do as cats do. Some cats are made to be indoor cats and some are not. If we kept our cat inside he would be monumentally unhappy. He hunts, catches things (mostly grasshoppers and spiders), enjoys his life.
Aside from that why are they setting dangerous traps where children could be? That is monumentally stupid and of course if someone got hurt they would claim some sort of govt shield from prosecution. Perhaps if govt officials were as liable as the rest of us they would be more careful.
Is your cat out digging up flower beds/gardens so is can crap, is it out. loudly fighting with other cats a 3am so I can't sleep etc..... But yet when you cat dies because somebody left anti-freeze out they are irresponsible, right? As a pet owner you are responible for you animal and all that it does and to the best of my knowledge in TX your pet is to be controlled.
I'm dog person myself, but come on, "left anti-freeze" out? How do you just leave "anti-freeze" out? I don't know what the law is on anti freeze disposal --just that it's illegal to dispose of it in landfills-- but I suspect "just leaving it out" is probably illegal. But aside from that, if you just leave anti freeze "out" how do you know some kid won't get poisoned with it? I'm gonna have to say yeah, just leaving it out is irresponsible, probably illegal, and likely to be for the purpose of poisoning animals.
You totally missed the point. Point being people need to take responsibility for their pets when bad things happen to them as it is their fault for not being proactive. Don't blame the Gov't for setting traps when your animal was not restrained, don't blame your neighbors when our pet was not restrained, don't blame the CHL'r when your pet was not restrained. It is called personal responsibility.
No, I didn't miss the point, I was responding to the example you gave about leaving anti-freeze out. Another poster gave a specific example of conduct that is perfectly acceptable. Your hypothetical was general enough to be interpreted as leaving anti freeze out for the purpose of poisoning or without regard to the potential for poisoning. I do blame the government for setting certain traps in certain locations though, because if I did the same thing I'd be put in prison for placing a booby trap --or any of the other crimes the article claims Wildlife Services is guilty of. What the article talks about is the government violating the law with impunity. Yeah, I get it, we have a lawless unaccountable government, I just don't believe that a lawless irresponsible and unaccountable government is acceptable.
Yep and ya did it again. you want clear cut example. car leaks on private open driveway cat/dog that is loose and unrestrained due to whatever reason laps it up then dies. No matter how many ways you try to excuse it away it will always fall on the owner for not taking care of their pets. I am not saying the Gov't was any to bright for what they did but give credit to each side for their action/in-action in these events. Responsibilty falls on both sides.
Nope, don't care about a clear cut example. I responded to the example YOU gave. Now you want to change the example. I responded to YOU talking about anti-freeze being LEFT OUT. That is NOT a leak....leaving anti-freeze out is a deliberate and intentional act. You have to either open a container or drain anti-freeze into an open container, and then decide to leave it in the open for it to be "left out." When you leave something out YOU make a DECISION to do so. It is a DELIBERATE act, not an accident. It is IRRESPONSIBLE to LEAVE OUT a poison, and in some specific circumstances may be illegal. As I said, I'm a dog person, and though it may be "unfair" I'm not aware of any leash laws for cats. If you LEAVE OUT a poison knowing a cat may drink it, you are deliberately taking an action that you KNOW may lead to poisoning an animal which may be someone's pet. That is irresponsible. You don't like the law, then lobby to put cats under the same law as dogs.
Ok, forget all the examples. pet owners should never feel responsible for their pets and blame someone else when something bad happens to the pet. Just like criminals should never go to jail when they stole that bike sitting there the owner should of not let it sit there right. Never mind that example also I give up. It is all about personal responsibility.
Your pet has no business/right to be on my property, period. This is true regardless of what type pet you have.
I always cheer for the underdog. If a neighbors cat goes after one of the bunnies that visits my backyard, lets just say the bunny is welcomed the cat is not. Besides, at that distance how am I supposed to distinguish a family pet from a feral cat? I can't and neither can the humane animal traps provided by the animal shelter.
Your pet finds it way on my property, you can expect to find your way to the pound.
Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid.
John Wayne
NRA Lifetime member
suthdj wrote:
Yep and ya did it again. you want clear cut example. car leaks on private open driveway cat/dog that is loose and unrestrained due to whatever reason laps it up then dies. No matter how many ways you try to excuse it away it will always fall on the owner for not taking care of their pets. I am not saying the Gov't was any to bright for what they did but give credit to each side for their action/in-action in these events. Responsibilty falls on both sides.
Hold on here. You are preaching responsibility. The car leaked. Now whose responsibility is it to maintain the car and to clean up leaks? An antifreeze leak is a threat to the groundwater too! My cat might eat a few birds, my cat might get eaten by a feral dog. My cat might be squished by a car. All of which effects mostly me. That antifreeze leak is the responsibilty of the car owner to ensure that A. this does not happen or B. it is cleaned up promptly. That can effect groundwater for many.
It's not a threat to the ground water if you have a catch pan. It's totally conceivable that it may have to be left leaking into a pan for a week or so waiting for time to make the repair or to get parts. There are many dangers for animals who roam and this is one of them.
suthdj wrote:Ok, forget all the examples. pet owners should never feel responsible for their pets and blame someone else when something bad happens to the pet. Just like criminals should never go to jail when they stole that bike sitting there the owner should of not let it sit there right. Never mind that example also I give up. It is all about personal responsibility.
Ok, you're a dodger, but not an artful one.
"Journalism, n. A job for people who flunked out of STEM courses, enjoy making up stories, and have no detectable integrity or morals."
suthdj wrote:Ok, forget all the examples. pet owners should never feel responsible for their pets and blame someone else when something bad happens to the pet. Just like criminals should never go to jail when they stole that bike sitting there the owner should of not let it sit there right. Never mind that example also I give up. It is all about personal responsibility.
Ok, you're a dodger, but not an artful one.
Not trying to dodge anything I have been saying the same thing from the 1st post. We as pet owners need to keep control of our animals. and not blame someone else for our short comings. Was the Gov't irresposible in the way they managed that program, yes. Was the home owner that left out toxic fluid irresponsible, yes. Was the pet owner that failed to control their animal irresponsible,yes. Lets just give credit where credit is due.
jmra wrote:Your pet has no business/right to be on my property, period. This is true regardless of what type pet you have.
I always cheer for the underdog. If a neighbors cat goes after one of the bunnies that visits my backyard, lets just say the bunny is welcomed the cat is not. Besides, at that distance how am I supposed to distinguish a family pet from a feral cat? I can't and neither can the humane animal traps provided by the animal shelter.
Your pet finds it way on my property, you can expect to find your way to the pound.
Except where I live you, when you call the pound you would be told that feral cats are part of the wildlife and there is no leash law for cats. Don't like it...work to change the law, or talk with your neighbor. Around here it is accepted that because cats are not likely to injure other people--ever heard of a cat mauling a person to death--and because they exist in nature naturally there is no leash law for cats.
SAHM to four precious children. Wife to a loving husband.
"The women of this country learned long ago those without swords can still die upon them!" Eowyn in LOTR Two Towers
There are many counties that do not have leash laws. Where it is perfectly acceptable for an animal either a dog or a cat to roam and as long as they are doing no harm to livestock or people everything is perfectly fine. The counties directly to the west of me are like this. Usually in those area it is understood that there is risk to living this way. However I would not expect reasonable people either in govt or private citizens to purposefully set out poison to kill animals.
Additionally even in those areas where there are leash laws I would hope that people would not be so irresponsible. life happens and if it is neighbor's beagle that slipped his lead and he gets into your coolant or other toxic material and dies how is that going to affect your relationship? Some of y'all might not care, but I happen to like having a good relationship with my neighbors. You gonna tell that ten year old neighbor tough nuggets when spot pulled off his leash and ran under your car and drank poison? You want grace to drain your car's deadly fluid...but will not extend that same grace to your neighbors and friends?
SAHM to four precious children. Wife to a loving husband.
"The women of this country learned long ago those without swords can still die upon them!" Eowyn in LOTR Two Towers
Ok, how about this when the person leaves their dog outside that eats your cat whose fault is that let me guess the dog owner right. People need to stop making excuses, not my pet, kid, etc and face facts. Yes your cat, your kids and so on. When your cat fails to come home some night go look in a mirror when you want to blame someone.
I am not doing anything illegal, immoral, or even socially unacceptable where I live. You have been increasingly hostile. You don't like cats....fine.. You may be angry with some cat owner, I understand that. I have not made excuses I have simply answered your questions. Cats, those that go outside have to accept the risks that go with it. Coyotes, feral dogs, and even cars are part of the risk. Yet most of the cats I have had in my life (around 7 throughout the years) have lived to very ripe old age (10 years plus). Now back to your responsibilities. Don't leave poison out. If you leave poison out for a persons dog, cat, child, that is your under your responsibility.
Not hostile and I don't leave chemicals lying around for animals and I don't hate cats. I dislike pet owners that have no respect for their neighbors or their pets lives. You are not picking up on that because you feel I am attacking you, I am not. What I am saying as I have said in every post We pet owners are solely responsible for our pets and their actions if the pet dies because we failed to follow simple common courtesy and in many places the law then we can not blame anyone for the death but ourselves. I can not make this fact any clearer.
You addressed me in particular and asked me in particular questions. So yes I feel that you have called me inconsiderate and irresponsible which I am not. I have repeatedly said there are risks. Perhaps you are a city slicker and have never lived with those risks. I will say it again where I live it is not considered out if the norm to have outdoor cats, or to have indoor/outdoor cats. Infant it is the norm. There are people in this world that live differently than you. It does not make them rude or inconsiderate.
SAHM to four precious children. Wife to a loving husband.
"The women of this country learned long ago those without swords can still die upon them!" Eowyn in LOTR Two Towers
jmra wrote:Your pet has no business/right to be on my property, period. This is true regardless of what type pet you have.
I always cheer for the underdog. If a neighbors cat goes after one of the bunnies that visits my backyard, lets just say the bunny is welcomed the cat is not. Besides, at that distance how am I supposed to distinguish a family pet from a feral cat? I can't and neither can the humane animal traps provided by the animal shelter.
Your pet finds it way on my property, you can expect to find your way to the pound.
Except where I live you, when you call the pound you would be told that feral cats are part of the wildlife and there is no leash law for cats. Don't like it...work to change the law, or talk with your neighbor. Around here it is accepted that because cats are not likely to injure other people--ever heard of a cat mauling a person to death--and because they exist in nature naturally there is no leash law for cats.
Cats do cause damage to property though. Scratches on autos...a little cat whizz here and there...yeah, had that with my old Jeep once...not pleasant. If I knew who the owner of the cat was I would gladly repay the "favor"...
On the flip side, I wouldn't let my 170+ Great Dane roam loose (although it might be cheaper having others giving him snacks/food, they'd probably steal him, well, until it was time to clean up the messes)...I wouldn't want him to destroy the car that hit him, have to explain to the neighbors why their kid is covered in slobber, their beer is gone (he is a known beer thief), their lawn is full of "Dane Mines," etc...your animal, your responsibility, to let it run loose is simply irresponsible. And that is a fact Jack (or Jill ).
jmra wrote:Your pet has no business/right to be on my property, period. This is true regardless of what type pet you have.
I always cheer for the underdog. If a neighbors cat goes after one of the bunnies that visits my backyard, lets just say the bunny is welcomed the cat is not. Besides, at that distance how am I supposed to distinguish a family pet from a feral cat? I can't and neither can the humane animal traps provided by the animal shelter.
Your pet finds it way on my property, you can expect to find your way to the pound.
Except where I live you, when you call the pound you would be told that feral cats are part of the wildlife and there is no leash law for cats. Don't like it...work to change the law, or talk with your neighbor. Around here it is accepted that because cats are not likely to injure other people--ever heard of a cat mauling a person to death--and because they exist in nature naturally there is no leash law for cats.
Cats do cause damage to property though. Scratches on autos...a little cat whizz here and there...yeah, had that with my old Jeep once...not pleasant. If I knew who the owner of the cat was I would gladly repay the "favor"...
On the flip side, I wouldn't let my 170+ Great Dane roam loose (although it might be cheaper having others giving him snacks/food, they'd probably steal him, well, until it was time to clean up the messes)...I wouldn't want him to destroy the car that hit him, have to explain to the neighbors why their kid is covered in slobber, their beer is gone (he is a known beer thief), their lawn is full of "Dane Mines," etc...your animal, your responsibility, to let it run loose is simply irresponsible. And that is a fact Jack (or Jill ).
Well you might have have a problem where I live cause the feral cat population is large. There is nothing to be done for it. They a part of the wildlife now. It is not the comparatively few house cats (most of the time fixed and immunized and socialized) wandering at night that you would have to be concerned for, but the cats that live in the woods and in the sewers that are not fixed and are breeding and thus marking their territory. So we could all keep our cats inside and you would still have to deal with the possibility of damage. Rabbits cause damage, deer cause damage, raccoons cause damage. Life is not without risks for any of us.
I wanted to add that this is a very urban outlook. That an animal simply sitting in the sun in the woods shows an irresponsible owner because they are not under direct supervision of a person at that time. A 5 lb cat sitting in the woods is very different than a 150lb Great Dane bounding about someone's backyard.
SAHM to four precious children. Wife to a loving husband.
"The women of this country learned long ago those without swords can still die upon them!" Eowyn in LOTR Two Towers
Ok, how about this when the person leaves their dog outside that eats your cat whose fault is that let me guess the dog owner right. People need to stop making excuses, not my pet, kid, etc and face facts. Yes your cat, your kids and so on. When your cat fails to come home some night go look in a mirror when you want to blame someone.
I am not doing anything illegal, immoral, or even socially unacceptable where I live. You have been increasingly hostile. You don't like cats....fine.. You may be angry with some cat owner, I understand that. I have not made excuses I have simply answered your questions. Cats, those that go outside have to accept the risks that go with it. Coyotes, feral dogs, and even cars are part of the risk. Yet most of the cats I have had in my life (around 7 throughout the years) have lived to very ripe old age (10 years plus). Now back to your responsibilities. Don't leave poison out. If you leave poison out for a persons dog, cat, child, that is your under your responsibility.
Not hostile and I don't leave chemicals lying around for animals and I don't hate cats. I dislike pet owners that have no respect for their neighbors or their pets lives. You are not picking up on that because you feel I am attacking you, I am not. What I am saying as I have said in every post We pet owners are solely responsible for our pets and their actions if the pet dies because we failed to follow simple common courtesy and in many places the law then we can not blame anyone for the death but ourselves. I can not make this fact any clearer.
You addressed me in particular and asked me in particular questions. So yes I feel that you have called me inconsiderate and irresponsible which I am not. I have repeatedly said there are risks. Perhaps you are a city slicker and have never lived with those risks. I will say it again where I live it is not considered out if the norm to have outdoor cats, or to have indoor/outdoor cats. Infant it is the norm. There are people in this world that live differently than you. It does not make them rude or inconsiderate.
Go back and read you injected yourself and cat. I have been saying the same thing from the 1st post. We as pet owners need to keep control of our animals. and not blame someone else for our short comings. Was the Gov't irresposible in the way they managed that program, yes. Was the home owner that left out toxic fluid irresponsible, yes. Was the pet owner that failed to control their animal irresponsible,yes. Lets just give credit where credit is due.
I have been called many things in my life but "City Slicker" really.
suthdj wrote:
Go back and read you injected yourself and cat. I have been saying the same thing from the 1st post. We as pet owners need to keep control of our animals. and not blame someone else for our short comings. Was the Gov't irresposible in the way they managed that program, yes. Was the home owner that left out toxic fluid irresponsible, yes. Was the pet owner that failed to control their animal irresponsible,yes. Lets just give credit where credit is due.
I have been called many things in my life but "City Slicker" really.
I have been saying the same thing too. You brought up the coolant liquid and said the person to blame was the pet owner.
I don't know you....but as I said before. The idea that cats should never be outdoors is an urban idea. The idea that cats only exist as pets is an urban idea. Where I live (x treme suburbs--mostly forested) and have lived (ranch in S. Texas) they are either accepted as a part of the wildlife or are a valued part of the farm community where they provide a service of catching gophers, snakes, mice and other undesirables. During certain seasons five minutes west of me they use dogs (not on a leash) for hunting. They often show up on people's porch, they look at the tag, and call the owner to let them know they have found their dog. So it is your outlook that makes me think that you have not had much experience in rural living.
SAHM to four precious children. Wife to a loving husband.
"The women of this country learned long ago those without swords can still die upon them!" Eowyn in LOTR Two Towers
suthdj wrote:
Go back and read you injected yourself and cat. I have been saying the same thing from the 1st post. We as pet owners need to keep control of our animals. and not blame someone else for our short comings. Was the Gov't irresposible in the way they managed that program, yes. Was the home owner that left out toxic fluid irresponsible, yes. Was the pet owner that failed to control their animal irresponsible,yes. Lets just give credit where credit is due.
I have been called many things in my life but "City Slicker" really.
I have been saying the same thing too. You brought up the coolant liquid and said the person to blame was the pet owner.
I don't know you....but as I said before. The idea that cats should never be outdoors is an urban idea. The idea that cats only exist as pets is an urban idea. Where I live (x treme suburbs--mostly forested) and have lived (ranch in S. Texas) they are either accepted as a part of the wildlife or are a valued part of the farm community where they provide a service of catching gophers, snakes, mice and other undesirables. During certain seasons five minutes west of me they use dogs (not on a leash) for hunting. They often show up on people's porch, they look at the tag, and call the owner to let them know they have found their dog. So it is your outlook that makes me think that you have not had much experience in rural living.
I really don't understand these people that want to kill an animal, especially one that is obviously someone's pet, just because it appears on their property. I find a dog running loose I don't assume that some irresponsible owner left him to roam, I assume that something happened that allowed him to escape and try to return him to his owner. Unless a dog is attacking you he is innocent of any wrong doing, he's just being a dog. I've returned several dogs and have yet to encounter one that was free because of an irresponsible owner. Many times, living in town, a yard guy left a gate open on a fenced yard. I've known dogs to slip a collar and get away from an owner who is desperately trying to retrieve him, or make a dash out the front door in a moment of distraction. When our children were little and had friends over one time the friends weren't careful enough and our dog ran out and got hit by a car. It was an accident and I don't blame the driver for that but I also don't think it would have justified shooting or poisoning him (fortunately he wasn't seriously injured). Out in the country now, a dog has followed my wife home, and other dogs have gotten away from their owner and wandered onto our property. Each time the owners were aware they'd gotten loose and came to get them; but even if they hadn't, I'm not going to kill a dog for being a dog or a cat for being a cat. I can't imagine deliberately poisoning an animal under any circumstances.
"Journalism, n. A job for people who flunked out of STEM courses, enjoy making up stories, and have no detectable integrity or morals."
jmra wrote:Your pet has no business/right to be on my property, period. This is true regardless of what type pet you have.
If conditions on my property are too dangerous for your pets, or your children, it's your moral and ethical responsibility to keep them from playing Darwinian roulette. In addition, it's basic good manners to keep yourself and your chattel off my property without permission and, because my property has sufficient purple paint marks, it's also the law.
).
