TexasCHLforum.com

Redneck_Buddha wrote:It's quite possible that there was a CHL in the restaurant, but when the rubber hit the road just couldn't muster the stones to act.

so you are saying that if you were there and 3 guys came in firing you would have exchanged fire?

I think I would take my chances very early in the fight. Rule number 1, always take the gunfighters table farthest from the door. Laser grips dialed in are an awesome thing with 230 grain +P hollow points...would be over in a few seconds one way or another.

maxpower wrote:

Redneck_Buddha wrote:It's quite possible that there was a CHL in the restaurant, but when the rubber hit the road just couldn't muster the stones to act.

so you are saying that if you were there and 3 guys came in firing you would have exchanged fire?

To br honest, I don't know and hope to never find out.

philip964 wrote: But a gunfight with 3 bad guys in a crowded room. Sounds like a no win situation.

Well, what are the options? Just sit there and hope while you watch everyone else killed?

Three guys rush in wearing masks/bandanas, brandishing/displaying handguns, unless it's Halloween, it is probably time to put all that range time to good use.

You may die, but if you just sit there you may die anyway.

If I go down I take someone with me but the problem is that I only have 6 rounds so I better be good. I know that I should have more but that's what I have.

JALLEN wrote:

philip964 wrote: But a gunfight with 3 bad guys in a crowded room. Sounds like a no win situation.

Well, what are the options? Just sit there and hope while you watch everyone else killed?

Three guys rush in wearing masks/bandanas, brandishing/displaying handguns, unless it's Halloween, it is probably time to put all that range time to good use.

You may die, but if you just sit there you may die anyway.

What's that old saying? Something about a pile of brass?

Seriously though, no one can ever know what he or she will do. Too many variables. The layout of the building, the other patrons near and around you. One can never know until that time comes and hopefully for all of us, may it never happen.

http://www.kens5.com/news/Police-releas ... 63091.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Photos were released of the suspects.

Responding to this scene as a CHL'r would be a nightmare. Think of it, you are sitting with your family in a booth, other families & kids around you. These three charge in guns a waving, what are your choices? Start shooting and end up drawing fire to your table with your family around you? Then what if you choose to do nothing, they demand you lay on the floor and they then discover your gun as they search for wallets. A quick shot to your head and you are done.

Maybe you jump from the booth and try to make it to a vacant part of the restaurant where you can take a position and open fire? I don't have an answer, but I do know this scene is why I carry a 13 round mag, at least I can start shooting and hope I either hit all three or they bolt for the door in the hail of lead. I would love to hear an experts opinion on how to react in this situation.

philip964 wrote:http://www.kens5.com/news/Police-releas ... 63091.html

Photos were released of the suspects.

In that opening photo the first person looks like a female at least the way the body is positioned.

Toons wrote:Responding to this scene as a CHL'r would be a nightmare. Think of it, you are sitting with your family in a booth, other families & kids around you. These three charge in guns a waving, what are your choices? Start shooting and end up drawing fire to your table with your family around you? Then what if you choose to do nothing, they demand you lay on the floor and they then discover your gun as they search for wallets. A quick shot to your head and you are done.

Maybe you jump from the booth and try to make it to a vacant part of the restaurant where you can take a position and open fire? I don't have an answer, but I do know this scene is why I carry a 13 round mag, at least I can start shooting and hope I either hit all three or they bolt for the door in the hail of lead. I would love to hear an experts opinion on how to react in this situation.

This is a good analysis. I think any honest experts will tell you that every situation is too dynamic to provide any guidance as to a proper response. (Of course, the official Houston Police Dept. advice would be that you shouldn't resist and simply take your changes. That's easy to say when you sitting on your fat butt in your safe office wearing your gold badge and multiple stars while your politician puppeteer is pulling your strings. /rant)

As JALLEN pointed out, in this situation the murderers came in firing so the script is pretty well written. It is rare that I can or will give a firm statement as to how I would react but with this fact pattern, these guys get shot as quickly as I can respond. I shoot a lot so I am confident in my skill at arms and I carry a gun I can shoot very accurately (5" 1911), rather than one that fits well in the pocket. I would select my line of fire to the extent time and physical layout of the room allow, but time is of the essence. As noted in the photo, they were coming through the door single file and if the first guy was firing, then I rather like the idea of firing into a bullet funnel (doorway). Obviously this may not have been possible for various reasons, but the only thing worse than fighting three guys in front of you is fighting three guys scattered all around. In all likelihood, if you drop one thug (cleaned up from COP parlance) the others will run like the gutless cowards they really are, but they may well do so shooting wildly.

{soapbox} If you are going to carry a gun, then carry a gun and not a toy or handgun-light! Learn not only how to shoot that gun, but how to fight with your gun. Those are two very different skills. {/soapbox}

I pray the Lord will let me live out my remaining days never again having to touch my gun in fear, but if I must, then make me fast and accurate so that others may live. (I've said that prayer long before Mel Gibson's The Patriot movie.)

Chas.

JALLEN wrote:... Plus, most CHL holders are respectable family types not given to being out at all hours of the night....

I'd wager that there are more than a couple of CHL holders who are respectable family types who are out working to provide for said family at all hours of the night.

RJGold wrote:
Pockets of re-birth surrounded by slums and barrios...

Hogwash. I see you give your location as Houston, but do you ever venture out of your gated community?

bdickens wrote:

JALLEN wrote:... Plus, most CHL holders are respectable family types not given to being out at all hours of the night....

I'd wager that there are more than a couple of CHL holders who are respectable family types who are out working to provide for said family at all hours of the night.

Why would you wager?

That's why I used the indefinite "most." The point remains, though, that with relatively few CHL holders, and most of them respectable family types, the odds of encountering one in a particular Dennys at that hour are pretty low, not zero however.

JALLEN wrote:

bdickens wrote:

JALLEN wrote:... Plus, most CHL holders are respectable family types not given to being out at all hours of the night....

I'd wager that there are more than a couple of CHL holders who are respectable family types who are out working to provide for said family at all hours of the night.

Why would you wager?

That's why I used the indefinite "most." The point remains, though, that with relatively few CHL holders, and most of them respectable family types, the odds of encountering one in a particular Dennys at that hour are pretty low, not zero however.

I work at night but you'll never catch me in a Denny's again after discovering Jim's. Not only is it a place where all the cops seem to eat late at night in San Antonio but I know quite a few CHL holders who frequent it including myself.

Well our trio of Denny's murderers, robbed a bank in West University, a small Houston suburb/city, today according to one of the witnesses at the Denny's murder and robbery.

http://www.click2houston.com/news/victi ... index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

No shots were fired here. It was in the middle of the day and West University is has one of the highest per capita incomes in the country.

So much for time of day and location to avoid crime.

Hope they get these guys soon. It may not be pretty if they get cornered in some robbery.