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Strat9mm,

I believe that mainstream Islam is peaceful. I believe that the acts of a few shouldn't condemn an entire religion.
I don't believe that just because we're afraid of a few people that it justifies the mistreatment of a majority. I believe that we as a country have done other groups of people wrong historically. I think we've also done wrongs as a Christian religion. These things speak to our imperfections and fallibility and shouldn't condemn us as a people or religion.

Religious wars are an really an oxymoron to me. They exist and have existed historically due to leadership (countries/religions) bending ignorant people to their will through manipulation of words out of context.

Yes, I think the US government is spying on us. I agree with you there. I think the general intent is "for our own good" - but I buy that some might be taking advantage of those programs for domestic reasons.
I don't think it's any different than the implementation of the TSA which costs a fortune and buys us very little protection. Politicians over-react and we're stuck with ineffective programs or programs that erode our civil liberties. Heck, you can't carry a long gun down the street without getting arrested and that right is fairly plainly written. We, as a people, are going to have to decide where the line of safety vs privacy lies... And it's likely going to continue to change over time.

To rail and vilify 1.5 billion people in this world... Yea, I think you're wrong there.

I keep hearing about how "peaceful" Islam is, but I have yet to see it.




http://wdtprs.com/blog/2013/07/catholic ... seems-yes/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://pjmedia.com/rogerkimball/2010/10 ... -of-peace/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages ... -Islam.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages ... easons.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


And it goes on and on and on....


You know how you just have to wonder what is going on when someone keeps telling you over and over how honest he is? I think much the same about someone who has to keep telling me how peaceful he is.

Don't tell me. Show me.

Let me try a different way:
Islam is a minority religion in the United States. How should the non-islamic treat Muslims in the United States? Do you think the Muslims blame the rest of the country when a few punks choose to damage or deface a mosque?
In other countries, such as Indonesia, Sudan and the United Arab Emirates (a US Ally) all have majority Muslim populations with Christian minorities in them. How should they treat non-islamic minorities?
Heck, look at Ethiopia. A country that we've sent massive aid to. It's almost 40% Muslim.

And yea, in every country in the world we can find people treating minorities badly. It sadly seems to be part of human nature. I personally want no part of it.

Look at both sides of the fence. If you don't want to believe that Islam is a peaceful religion then I think you're letting the media do your thinking for you and haven't really looked on your own. You don't have to believe a word of it to read it. Don't take it out of context. And like any religious text, it can be used out of context to support something evil.

What's the end goal here if you think it's impossible to co-exist? A one world religion? Because if we can't co-exist, that's what you're prescribing. A one-world religion sounds like the end of a Good Book that I know about.

Here's what you're looking at.. Relations in Egypt are strained to say the least, here's a pretty good quote that I found:

About a third (35%) of Egyptian Muslims say that all, most or many Muslims in their country are hostile toward Christians, according to a Pew Research Center survey of the world’s Muslims. And, about half (50%) of Egypt’s Muslims say that all, most or many Christians are hostile toward Muslims, the highest share in the 26 countries where the question was asked.

Personally, I thing we can do better than that regardless of our political affiliation, skin color, or religion.

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks."

cb1000rider wrote:Strat9mm,

I believe that mainstream Islam is peaceful. I believe that the acts of a few shouldn't condemn an entire religion...

I don't believe that just because we're afraid of a few people that it justifies the mistreatment of a majority...

I believe that we as a country have done other groups of people wrong historically. I think we've also done wrongs as a Christian religion...

Religious wars are an really an oxymoron to me...

To rail and vilify 1.5 billion people in this world... Yea, I think you're wrong there.

The tenets and acts of the founders and followers of that religion should be more than enough proof to change your belief. But if the past isn't sufficient, trust me, the future will more than prove just how wrong you are. As for the 'few' people who should not condemn their religion, does that include the men, women and children who dance and have parties in the streets when innocent Americans are killed, as in 9/11?

As for who is afraid of 'a few people', don't count me among them. If history and current events don't prove them an 'evil axis', well, as I just 'said', in the very near future, they will leave NO ONE any doubt as to how 'peaceful' they really are.

As far as Christianity (so-called) is concerned, it has next to no resemblance to the Christianity described in the New Testament, as practiced by Christ, the Apostles, and both Jewish, and non-Jewish converts to Christianity. No one considers the Old Testament as a set of Laws, principles and examples which should be followed, even though it's obvious that is exactly what the New Testament example shows. Case in point, today is the First Day of The Feast of Tabernacles, also known as Sukkot. Christ, the Apostles and ALL converts to "New Testament Christianity' kept this Holy Day, along with the other Holy Days, including the Passover and Feast of Unleavened Bread, DECADES after Christ died. Paul even taught Corinthians (Greek converts to Christianity) how to properly keep the Passover, even warning them that many of them became sick, some had even died because they kept the Passover in the wrong manner. But next to no Christian today even knows about, let alone keeps these Days holy, let alone the Sabbath Holy, even though Christ IS the Lord of the Sabbath (which incidentally, is on Saturday, not Sunday).

So it becomes obvious that the blame for most of the wars started by 'Christianity' (so-called), belongs on something, or someone other than the Bible, let alone God. The Book of James, especially Chapter 4, addresses the cause of many 'Christian' wars. Historically speaking, it mostly belongs on the rulers of Europe who basically acted like a bunch of self-serving despots, hence the founding of the United States of America, by CHRISTIANS, who in drafting the Constitution did their best to prevent anyone from using ANY religion, ANY person, or GROUP of persons, or any political party, let alone ANY BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT, to deny people their rights. At least it worked for a while.

Fully half of this country denies God, and actually support the removal of any references to God and Creation in government and schools, and rail like banshees when God is mentioned in public media. And all this despite the numerous references to the God and the Bible in our Laws, writings, and even symbols left in our money and buildings by the Founding Fathers of the nation. They understood and believed alot more of God and the Bible than modern 'Christianity' does today, and the signs and symbols they left behind, prove it. Yet we have fully half this nation on a campaign to deny God, the Bible and support muslim as well as socialist indoctrination in our schools, against all that the Founding Fathers believed in.

So now God and Christianity can be slandered and libeled w/o reproach, but persecution comes when Islam is simply exposed for what it is by their own history, tenets, and practices. Some say God has blessed and protected this country. Others (if not most) would say they did it on their own, and God deserves no thanks for the benefits of being born an American, especially in this day and age. So it seems that most people have no desire to obey God, believe God, let alone serve God, or even thank God. As if they all really didn't need his protection or blessings, because again, 'we' did it all on our own.

The only reason we don't have even MORE wars around the world led by despotic tyrants bent on conquering their neighbors and more, is because of the restraining influence and possibility of reprisals by the United States of America. We -are- the ONLY superpower and the ONLY nation in the history of the earth who has NOT gone out to war to conquer and enslave, nor for profit, but always in defense of others, at GREAT EXPENSE TO OURSELVES. We even spent huge sums to rebuild antagonist nations who had LEARNED THEIR LESSONS, i.e. Germany and Japan. If that isn't Godly, I don't know what is. Iraq and Afghanistan and Pakistan don't count. Because though we give them large sums of money, they still hate the United States and their people still kill our citizens and soldiers. To call any of those nations 'friends', would be a denial of reality. Oddly enough, unless I'm mistaken, the nation of Israel has ONLY gone to war in their own defense, and it seems the only time the United Nations intervenes for 'peace', is when the outnumbering antagonists start getting slaughtered. The U.N. has become a joke and really, an enemy of the Israeli's and the United States, but that's another story.

So the question becomes, hypothetically speaking, what do people think would happen if God (if of course He existed, and yes, He does) removed His blessings and protection? How peaceful do you think that 'peaceful religion' will be then? What would happen if God Himself fought AGAINST the United States?

We're about to find out.

This after all, is not a religious lesson, it's about to become a severe history lesson.

bdickens wrote:Just so we know, the crime of treason is very narrowly defined in the Constitution:

Article III.
Section. 3.

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charte ... cript.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Aid and comfort to the enemy... on the testimony of two witnesses.

I'm thinking, Jane Fonda, people who visited Saddam Hussein and who went to Iraq to act as human shields in their defense, and really, anyone who gave bribes, err, 'aid' to countries, at the very least, AFTER they murdered or raped or otherwise harmed American citizens or soldiers.

Dave2 wrote:

Strat9mm wrote:I wouldn't trust any of them, nor ANYONE who defends them.

Don't you want to know someone a bit before not trusting them?

Axe murderers usually hide in plain sight, and are really nice guys... until that axe is swung.

So were they really all that nice after all?

Trust is usually earned.

Nothing in history or practice or writings of that 'peaceful religion' should engender any trust whatsoever.