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Dave2 wrote:I'm pretty sure that the reduced speed limit signs don't denote the boundary of school property. Otherwise the school in my neighborhood would own a *lot* of houses.

But the Gun Free School Zone is all property within 1000 feet of a school, including private property. The deal is a private property owners get an exception on their property, but no one else does.

Either way, the speed limit signs are irrelevant for guns.

hillfighter wrote:Either way, the speed limit signs are irrelevant for guns.

The speed limit could harm you though if you are stopped for a speeding violation and illegally carrying

hillfighter wrote:Either way, the speed limit signs are irrelevant for guns.

Yeah, that's why I was trying to figure out how they got brought up.

Keith B wrote:

Dave2 wrote:I'm pretty sure that the reduced speed limit signs don't denote the boundary of school property. Otherwise the school in my neighborhood would own a *lot* of houses.

But the Gun Free School Zone is all property within 1000 feet of a school, including private property. The deal is a private property owners get an exception on their property, but no one else does.

That isn't quite correct for the federal GFSZ act. It simply does not apply to private property. There is no requirement for a person to be the property owner.

Jumping Frog wrote:

Keith B wrote:

Dave2 wrote:I'm pretty sure that the reduced speed limit signs don't denote the boundary of school property. Otherwise the school in my neighborhood would own a *lot* of houses.

But the Gun Free School Zone is all property within 1000 feet of a school, including private property. The deal is a private property owners get an exception on their property, but no one else does.

That isn't quite correct for the federal GFSZ act. It simply does not apply to private property. There is no requirement for a person to be the property owner.

Thanks for the correction.

Keith B wrote:

Dave2 wrote:I'm pretty sure that the reduced speed limit signs don't denote the boundary of school property. Otherwise the school in my neighborhood would own a *lot* of houses.

But the Gun Free School Zone is all property within 1000 feet of a school, including private property. The deal is a private property owners get an exception on their property, but no one else does.

Which begs the question... How does your average citizen going about his live and daily travels know where every school in the state is and where this invisible 1000 foot line is?

Does the state produce a map with school zone overlay?

Does anyone one?

Of note.. there is a Texas gang, fairly active in my area, that is known for keeping a shotgun on the back seat, openly displayed. The PD's know this and understand that upon contacting these gang members, they WILL SEE a shotgun in the car, legally carried in such a manner. ....When I was briefed on all that, it never occurred to me the logistics of those gang members moving from place of roost to place of gathering... without running afoul of the no guns School zone laws

E.Marquez wrote: Of note.. there is a Texas gang, fairly active in my area, that is known for keeping a shotgun on the back seat, openly displayed. The PD's know this and understand that upon contacting these gang members, they WILL SEE a shotgun in the car, legally carried in such a manner. ....When I was briefed on all that, it never occurred to me the logistics of those gang members moving from place of roost to place of gathering... without running afoul of the no guns School zone laws

So are you saying that Texas LEO's observe this criminal activity and refuse to enforce the laws they enforce on the rest of us, out of fear?

JALLEN wrote:

E.Marquez wrote: Of note.. there is a Texas gang, fairly active in my area, that is known for keeping a shotgun on the back seat, openly displayed. The PD's know this and understand that upon contacting these gang members, they WILL SEE a shotgun in the car, legally carried in such a manner. ....When I was briefed on all that, it never occurred to me the logistics of those gang members moving from place of roost to place of gathering... without running afoul of the no guns School zone laws

So are you saying that Texas LEO's observe this criminal activity and refuse to enforce the laws they enforce on the rest of us, out of fear?

No sir.. not at all what I said...

IN Texas, we have a known gang, whose members know the law as it relates to a long gun inside a vehicle.. They openly carry (store) the gun in plain view on the back seat.

This in itself is perfectly legal.
Only when you bring in other variables (school zone, convicted felon, ect) does this action become illegal.
I'm told, they are pretty disciplined, officers do not find those displaying the long gun to be otherwise doing anything illegal (drugs in the car, felon in possession, warrants, convicted of family violence, ect)

The school zone thing has be wondering though... .. I don't know where every school in Central Texas is at, nor where the invisible 1000ft line is.
I doubt I could without serious recon and research move about Central Texas from home to the clubs / bar / pool halls / gathering areas common to gangs without running afoul of the law.

As does 41.02 (a) (8).... a LEO could, easily decide, that gun on the back seat was being displayed in a manner calculated to cause alarm. A DA or judge might disagree..... but it could be articulated i suppose to be a reasonable claim.

E.Marquez wrote:

JALLEN wrote:

E.Marquez wrote: Of note.. there is a Texas gang, fairly active in my area, that is known for keeping a shotgun on the back seat, openly displayed. The PD's know this and understand that upon contacting these gang members, they WILL SEE a shotgun in the car, legally carried in such a manner. ....When I was briefed on all that, it never occurred to me the logistics of those gang members moving from place of roost to place of gathering... without running afoul of the no guns School zone laws

So are you saying that Texas LEO's observe this criminal activity and refuse to enforce the laws they enforce on the rest of us, out of fear?

No sir.. not at all what I said...

IN Texas, we have a known gang, whose members know the law as it relates to a long gun inside a vehicle.. They openly carry (store) the gun in plain view on the back seat.

This in itself is perfectly legal.
Only when you bring in other variables (school zone, convicted felon, ect) does this action become illegal.
I'm told, they are pretty disciplined, officers do not find those displaying the long gun to be otherwise doing anything illegal (drugs in the car, felon in possession, warrants, convicted of family violence, ect)

The school zone thing has be wondering though... .. I don't know where every school in Central Texas is at, nor where the invisible 1000ft line is.
I doubt I could without serious recon and research move about Central Texas from home to the clubs / bar / pool halls / gathering areas common to gangs without running afoul of the law.

As does 41.02 (a) (8).... a LEO could, easily decide, that gun on the back seat was being displayed in a manner calculated to cause alarm. A DA or judge might disagree..... but it could be articulated i suppose to be a reasonable claim.

To add to that one would need PC for a vehicle stop. Having knowledge they may be carrying a gun is not good PC for a stop w/o actually seeing it. Now if they were doing 45 in a 25 school zone and happened to have a gun in the car in plain site one could consider taking additional measures. But then this is Texas and I imagine many many people violate this school zone law all the time.

texanjoker wrote:
To add to that one would need PC for a vehicle stop. Having knowledge they may be carrying a gun is not good PC for a stop w/o actually seeing it. Now if they were doing 45 in a 25 school zone and happened to have a gun in the car in plain site one could consider taking additional measures. But then this is Texas and I imagine many many people violate this school zone law all the time.

As I rode along that shift... the stop that brought this issue to light was for a failure to indicate turn ..Sec. 545.104. SIGNALING TURNS; USE OF TURN SIGNALS, (b) An operator intending to turn a vehicle right or left shall signal continuously for not less than the last 100 feet of movement of the vehicle before the turn.

It was PC for contact, no citation was issued as license, registration, inspection sticker, insurance and both occupants checked out good and the operator did use the turn signals.. but only for a few feet...the officer I was with elected to educate vice cite.

E.Marquez wrote:

JALLEN wrote:

E.Marquez wrote: Of note.. there is a Texas gang, fairly active in my area, that is known for keeping a shotgun on the back seat, openly displayed. The PD's know this and understand that upon contacting these gang members, they WILL SEE a shotgun in the car, legally carried in such a manner. ....When I was briefed on all that, it never occurred to me the logistics of those gang members moving from place of roost to place of gathering... without running afoul of the no guns School zone laws

So are you saying that Texas LEO's observe this criminal activity and refuse to enforce the laws they enforce on the rest of us, out of fear?

No sir.. not at all what I said...

IN Texas, we have a known gang, whose members know the law as it relates to a long gun inside a vehicle.. They openly carry (store) the gun in plain view on the back seat.

This in itself is perfectly legal.
Only when you bring in other variables (school zone, convicted felon, ect) does this action become illegal.
I'm told, they are pretty disciplined, officers do not find those displaying the long gun to be otherwise doing anything illegal (drugs in the car, felon in possession, warrants, convicted of family violence, ect)

The school zone thing has be wondering though... .. I don't know where every school in Central Texas is at, nor where the invisible 1000ft line is.
I doubt I could without serious recon and research move about Central Texas from home to the clubs / bar / pool halls / gathering areas common to gangs without running afoul of the law.

As does 41.02 (a) (8).... a LEO could, easily decide, that gun on the back seat was being displayed in a manner calculated to cause alarm. A DA or judge might disagree..... but it could be articulated i suppose to be a reasonable claim.

Assuming the shotgun is unloaded, I suppose. But other citizens are stopped and sometimes arrested for open carrying which, of course, some of us think is somewhat uncalled for. I grew up in the day when lever guns especially hung from every rifle rack in every pick up truck, but like dinosaurs, you hardly ever see one anymore, even here in the hill country.

It causes one to wonder whether the sauce for the goose is different than the sauce for the gander, and evokes at least the suspicion that the police would rather not exercise their discretion when it would lead to big trouble.

E.Marquez wrote:

texanjoker wrote:
To add to that one would need PC for a vehicle stop. Having knowledge they may be carrying a gun is not good PC for a stop w/o actually seeing it. Now if they were doing 45 in a 25 school zone and happened to have a gun in the car in plain site one could consider taking additional measures. But then this is Texas and I imagine many many people violate this school zone law all the time.

As I rode along that shift... the stop that brought this issue to light was for a failure to indicate turn ..Sec. 545.104. SIGNALING TURNS; USE OF TURN SIGNALS, (b) An operator intending to turn a vehicle right or left shall signal continuously for not less than the last 100 feet of movement of the vehicle before the turn.

It was PC for contact, no citation was issued as license, registration, inspection sticker, insurance and both occupants checked out good and the operator did use the turn signals.. but only for a few feet...the officer I was with elected to educate vice cite.

That is how I roll. Use the vehicle code for PC and go from there. That is how criminals are caught.

JALLEN wrote: Assuming the shotgun is unloaded, I suppose.

Where do you derive the need for it to be unloaded?
Best I can tell, there is no law that regulates the carrying of a long gun in Texas.

Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club

E.Marquez wrote:

JALLEN wrote: Assuming the shotgun is unloaded, I suppose.

Where do you derive the need for it to be unloaded?
Best I can tell, there is no law that regulates the carrying of a long gun in Texas.

Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club

Then why are folks arrested for it?

It seems this gang is getting a "King's X!"