CHL shooting test TOO EASY?

[jimlongley]

Then I challenge you to make it harder on yourself...personally...

Shoot your next qualifier, weak-handed...Put your renewal in a slight jeopardy...I bet you switch back to your strong hand by the time the ten shots you have to get at 15 yards comes around...

When I took my TCPS test I had been helping the instructor out with the class, coaching and mentoring a couple of people, and one in particular, that he didn't have the time to work with one on one.

When we practiced for qualification the instructor placed an orange aiming spot on each of the students' targets, including mine, the difference being that he placed mine on the head of the target. I accepted the challenge and although I didn't fire a perfect score, I came close.

I had my revenge during the shotgun qual, when I used 00 Buck that had 12 balls per round, when he counted the target, expecting to see 45 holes, he found 60.

[GlockenHammer]

In return for an easy test (or no test, really), I would like to see training in firearms proficiency. The four safety rules could then be drilled. The basics of marksmanship could be taught (for those who've never had any instruction on using the bumps on top of their gun). Perhaps those 50 rounds from the test could be better put to use teaching a person how to fire accurately instead of measuring their current status. Yes, I'm thinking of something like the NRA basic pistol course.

Just for the record, I wasn't intending for the actual NRA basic pistol course to be taught, but rather some of that content worked into the CHL class curriculum and range time.

[TEX]

I really get tired of hearing the “why are we asking permission to exercise a right you already have via the Constitution� thing. Don’t confuse what should be with reality. We have to live in the real world and the CHL is the best we have at this time and a damn sight better than what we had before. We constitutionally should not have to pay a taxed based on our income, but just try and do it and you will need the extra large tube of KY. I would love to see all restrictive firearm laws removed and then punish the hell out of those who misuse them or commit a crime with them, but it ain’t going to happen. I don’t know if there has ever been a case of an innocent bystander being injured or killed by a CHL holder that is not as accurate as we would wish them to be, but think about how the media would grab and run with such an incident – and it only takes one. I hear them now screaming for an end to the CHL laws. Besides requiring CHL holders to get up to speed would increase their chances of having a good outcome in a bad situation. I do believe that someone elderly or with special circumstances should be allowed to qualify with a .22 rim fire if they wish, and there should be an avenue for lesser abilities, but there should be a system in place to review these cases. If you design the test to the lowest common denominator then that is what you get and this mind set is sort of what has screwed up our once great public school system. I don’t wish to be harsh, but I guess I feel sort of like Ayoob does about the issue

No, as a matter of fact, you don't have a God-given right to carry a loaded gun in shopping malls where there are kids walking around. It's a privilege, and you need to be able show society that you know how to use it and when to use it. That you're not going to shoot at a perpetrator and hit a kid by mistake.' I think that's a reasonable request. – Massad Ayoob

Look, shooting a handgun well, but not expertly, is not a hard thing. It just requires the proper training and practice, followed up by regular practice. I am sorry but shooting a CHL qualifier once every 5 years and missing the torso with 15%-20% of your rounds (minimum score) just doesn’t cut it IMHO.

I did not hear anything back on the two-tier license idea. If I am way out of bounds on that idea, I would like to hear comments. I certainly don’t know everything and I don’t necessarily assume that my opinions and comments or better than someone else’s. I never stop learning and my mind has been changed more than once by a well thought out argument.

[srothstein]

I don't know whether the CHL course is too hard or too easy, but I thought you should see the official TCLEOSE requirements for peace officers, just to have a basis for comparison:

(c) The minimum standards for the annual firearms proficiency course of fire shall be:

(1) handguns - a minimum of 50 rounds, including at least five rounds of duty ammunition, fired at ranges from point-blank to at least 15 yards with at least 20 rounds at or beyond seven yards, including at least one timed reload;

(2) shotguns - a minimum of five rounds of duty ammunition fired at a range of at least 15 yards;

(3) rifles - a minimum of 20 rounds of duty ammunition fired at a range of at least 100 yards, however an agency may, in its discretion, allow a range of less than 100 yards but not less than 50 yards if the minimum passing percentage is raised to 90;

(4) patrol rifles - a minimum of 30 rounds of duty ammunition fired at a range of at least 50 yards, including at least one timed reload; however, an agency may, in its discretion, allow a range of less than 50 yards but not less than 10 yards if the minimum passing percentage is raised to 90;

(5) fully automatic weapons - a minimum of 30 rounds of duty ammunition fired at ranges from seven to at least 10 yards, including at least one timed reload, with at least 25 rounds fired in full automatic (short bursts of two or three rounds), and at least five rounds fired semi-automatic, if possible with the weapon.

(d) The minimum passing percentage shall be 70 for each firearm.



If you read these carefully, you will note that it is up to the agency how to score the target. I have seen agencies that score any hit on the silhouette as 2 points, with a maximum of 100 points for the 50 shots. That means a passing score is 35 hits in a man-size (bug man too) target. Also note, there is a requirement for only 15 yards maximum, and the timed reload has no maximum time. If I say fire four shots, reload, and fire four more shots, within five minutes, that is a timed reload. No, I don't know of any agencies that do it like that, but overall most police courses are fairly easy to pass.

[Will938]

The constitution gives congress the power to tax in Section 8 of the Constitution and the 16th Amendment covers income taxes.

I understand what you're saying, but the case for bearing arms should be well tilted on our side compared to income tax.

The tier system is interesting to consider.

[phddan]

I liked the way they scored the targets on my first test. Making head shots made it more interesting for me.
Now with just torso shots being counted, I found myself doing quick shots, and double taps, resisting the urge to finish with a head shot.
Yea, I get real bored punching holes in paper at close range.

Dan

[Fourman]

The test may be a bit too easy. My room-mate wanted to get a CHL. He never held a handgun his whole life. I give him a 1/2 hour lesson on the gun and then he took the class and passed with no issues. He still does not carry yet since he plans to learn much more, however to be able to pass that easily......

Brian

[BrassMonkey]

So the test did exactly what it was meant for. BASIC safety practices very basic marksmanship.

[longtooth]

[stevie_d_64]

You know I don't beat my chest about helping out when I finish qualifying on this CHL range test...

But if I do, and I feel that I've done my best to make sure no one I worked with got hurt by getting slide bit or some other handling issue...

I will without any hesitation tell that person, after they "pass" of course, to get with the CHL instructor, who has probably forgotten more than I'll ever know about firearms, and get some additional instruction...That would be our "ElGato", I was glad to help out, and be that extra set of eyes for him...The other two instructors I have had, no longer do CHL or firearms instruction...

I'm not a prideful person, and I don't mind sending someone to get some additional help like this...Maybe someday I'll get the time to get a certification in some aspect of firearms instruction, but until then, I'll do what I can within my own knowledge, and send them on to someone who can do it officially...

[fizteach]

I joined the Marine Corps in 1973 and swore an oath to uphold the Constitution of the US. This also includes the Bill of Rights, as far as I am concerned.

Having said that, I support the RKBA. As in anything, people who violate laws that already exist are responsible for their wrong doing. Folks need to be encouraged to get training and improve their skills, but we all know what the 2nd amendment says. We either believe in what it has to say or we don't. The CHL process is a step in the right direction towards regaining the rights given to us by SA, but I believe the key word here is it is a Right to keep and bear arms, not a privilege as is driving.

Semper fi

[Trope]

The shooting test seems about right to me, but I was surprised that there was so little mention of safety. I wouldn't mind if a greater part of the class covered basic safety rules, and safe handling.

And the licensing fee should be much less, but I digress.

[GlockenHammer]

I did not hear anything back on the two-tier license idea. If I am way out of bounds on that idea, I would like to hear comments. I certainly don’t know everything and I don’t necessarily assume that my opinions and comments or better than someone else’s. I never stop learning and my mind has been changed more than once by a well thought out argument.

I think your idea has merit. I started a new thread on the subject rather than hijack this one.

[pbandjelly]

I was told (jokingly) that the shooting portion was a reward for sitting through the class, and passing your written part!
I was also told (seriously, this time) that the class was not to teach you how to shoot, but for you to show that you did, indeed know how to hit the target.

[Stupid]

what's missing from the CHL training is the SAFETY training!!!