TexasCHLforum.com

cb1000rider wrote:APD is very well paid. I believe they're the top paid police force in Austin. I can tell you that they have some great officers and detectives. I also realize that they're a big organization and as such, they'll have some not-so-good ones too.

Austin Police Department is the top paid police force in Austin? Go figure. Haha. Did you mean in Texas or as opposed to DPS/Sheriff's Office in/around Austin?

I've shared this here before viewtopic.php?f=7&t=57930&start=15#p711864, but I had a K9 officer tell me I was required to show him my ID when he arrived on the scene of our church for a possible burglary. After they searched the church he asked if I was armed and he kept stating that it was for his safety that I was required to notify him when he arrived on scene that I was armed. I'll let you read about it in the link above if you want.

It was a courteous exchange and even though he was incorrect, I didn't feel the need to followup. However, if I had been handcuffed or otherwise inappropriately treated for the officer's not knowing the statue I would have filed a formal complaint. So I think the OP should at least put in writing to the chief. Paper trails can be very important.

Ron

To the OP, given that you've had two run-ins with APD in which they disarmed and cuffed you after informing them you were armed, and given that they only asked you after you showed them your CHL (as the law requires), AND given that there is no more penalty under the law for failing to show your CHL......

......maybe we should all start exercising the "Austin Exception".......

GC §411.205. REQUIREMENT TO DISPLAY LICENSE. (a) If a license holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder's person when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license holder display identification, the license holder shall display both the license holder's driver's license or identification certificate issued by the department and the license holder's handgun license, unless said magistrate or peace officer works in Austin, Texas, in which case the license holder shall (1) withhold the information and not show the license, and (2) the license holder shall shuffle off quietly as soon as possible.

IANAL, IDNPOOTV, and TINLA (This Is Not Legal Advice).

TomsTXCHL wrote:

cb1000rider wrote:Guys, don't label an entire police force due to the actions of one - or perhaps a few officers...

Or how about one per week--or so it seems anyway. If I read the San Antonio paper instead of Austin's American-Statesman would I see a similar number of incidents, with the Chief forever trying to explain something one of his officers did?

I dunno if you can compare SA to Austin in terms of gun tolerance, just based on the recently exposed (to me) ordinances that prohibit weapons in general out of San Antonio. Austin has drama, just like all large-ish cities do, but the Statesman will concentrate on jaywalking incidents. I think SA has much more pervasive criminal problems. Austin is also pretty liberal, so we've got those that scream pretty loud... And since it brings in readers, the paper reports it.

My experiences with APD have all been positive. I actually relax if it's Travis county or APD that I have to interact with.. And respectfully, I've never had the experience of the OP, which would certainly cause me some concern.

One county north - Williamson, I've had much more cohersive and negative experiences.

cb1000rider wrote:Guys, don't label an entire police force due to the actions of one - or perhaps a few officers..

That is true and good advice, but can sometimes be difficult when the tone is set from the top as it is in this case.

locke_n_load wrote:Austin Police Department is the top paid police force in Austin? Go figure. Haha. Did you mean in Texas or as opposed to DPS/Sheriff's Office in/around Austin?

I mean that their entry salaries and typical salaries for years of tenure are very good comparatively to other city jurisdictions. They seem to be constantly recruiting, but I don't know how competitive it is to get in. I know that starting salary for an officer in my "city" is substantially less than Austin. Maybe that's part of why we have such quality officers locally: http://www.statesman.com/news/news/crim ... ed-/ndNGJ/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I know one DPS officer indirectly. He's been on the force for a while and I know he pulls in over $100k via overtime and outside work. I'm not trying to compare APD's base salary to his total compensation.

Here's the 2013 APD pay scale. Note that it doesn't account for overtime or any work done off the clock:
https://www.austintexas.gov/sites/defau ... scales.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think good officers should be paid well.. Bad officers shouldn't be paid at all.

C-dub wrote:

cb1000rider wrote:Guys, don't label an entire police force due to the actions of one - or perhaps a few officers..

That is true and good advice, but can sometimes be difficult when the tone is set from the top as it is in this case.

The management of any organization can set the tone for the behavior expectations of its members.

for what its worth
write a nice letter to his chief and let it sit
you know they didnt do everything exactly right and we as chl holders always are professional and respectful.
but we tend to know the rules closer because we can get into big hot water fast if we dont

if the leo is rude or attitudinal, you are not gonna win on the side of the road...remain calm and take notes

if i get stopped, i judge the walk up by the leo as how the stop may go and always be nice, even if they are not.
i will say the few times i have been pulled over carrying....its been the same
dl. here is my chl and they ask if i am armed and where it is
i tell them and ask if it needs to be removed....none have said please place it my view...all have said Thank you, please dont remove it

WildBill wrote: The management of any organization can set the tone for the behavior expectations of its members.

Absolutely. Is that what happened here? Art told his officers to demand things that aren't required by law when dealing with the legally licensed CHL holders?

To me, a complaint might clarify the policy here. If the complaint quietly disappears, then likely APD leadership doesn't care. If they address it, maybe spend the time to review the incident, and respond to the OP it would indicate something else.

Without a complaint, we just continue to arm-chair this all day long... Which is part of what a forum is for.

cb1000rider wrote:

WildBill wrote: The management of any organization can set the tone for the behavior expectations of its members.

Absolutely. Is that what happened here? Art told his officers to demand things that aren't required by law when dealing with the legally licensed CHL holders?

To me, a complaint might clarify the policy here. If the complaint quietly disappears, then likely APD leadership doesn't care. If they address it, maybe spend the time to review the incident, and respond to the OP it would indicate something else.

Without a complaint, we just continue to arm-chair this all day long... Which is part of what a forum is for.

Actually, you can write a letter to the chief, and CC all the local muckrakers on local TV news. Somebody will surely get the chief to answer on camera. When it becomes public knowledge that A) he violates the law, and B) he encourages his officers to violate the law, somebody will require him to be accountable for it, and things will change.

I would definitely write a complaint. To my understanding you followed procedure on your end, and while he has the right to disarm you, (which at midnight in a rough neighborhood I don't necessarily blame him for that) but the way he had you leave the gun in the open until he left is wrong.

I agree with all that said you need to file a complaint with the monitoring board and IA. You should also copy Art Assavedo and the local media outlets. Don't expect much from Assavedo, though. Even though he was hired to clean up APD after a series of excessive force complaints, he has only continued the practice of circling his wagons when ever there is an allegation of misconduct by one of his officers. He comes from Southern California, which of course has its own institutional culture of abuse of power, excessive force and is extremely anti-gun. It would not surprise me at all if the OP's experiences are the result of official or unofficial policy directives from Assavedo.

The Annoyed Man wrote:Actually, you can write a letter to the chief, and CC all the local muckrakers on local TV news. Somebody will surely get the chief to answer on camera.

I think you overestimate the Austin press. While they normally leap at the opportunity to roast APD, I wouldn't bet good money when it's a gun rights issue.

Austin is a blue berry in a bowl of tomato soup..
You won't get anything for complaining other
than making enemies in high places

Best to forget it and go on The Austin City Council and the Austin Police are faithful followers of Mike Bloomberg

Be thankful the state legislature can severely limit their power when it comes to guns

Follow this link it will give you an idea of what the Austin city council and Austin police are like

http://helpthesheeple.com/2013/04/10/de ... l-gun-ban/

tommyg wrote:Austin is a blue berry in a bowl of tomato soup..
You won't get anything for complaining other
than making enemies in high places

Best to forget it and go on The Austin City Council and the Austin Police are faithful followers of Mike Bloomberg

Be thankful the state legislature can severely limit their power when it comes to guns

Follow this link it will give you an idea of what the Austin city council and Austin police are like

http://helpthesheeple.com/2013/04/10/de ... l-gun-ban/

What other posters have said: if you don't write a complaint for sure nothing will ever happen to correct this.