Jared1981 wrote:jimlongley wrote:Jared1981 wrote:I understand Jim, but New York is a big state so consider that someone has lost a job when the sheriff's office has contacted a place of employment, not everyone has Tom King on speed dial. Also, being that most of the old formats of New York Licenses list your occupation on the actual permit, it's basically required unless you were lucky enough to have a good pistol judge. But yes, many counties like Monroe do take up to and over a year to issue, Ontario Co is pretty bad as well.
That's why I was asking, I don't have the money to be a test case, I wasn't arguing with anyone, I just don't care for their opinions on the matter which is why I asked if anyone has had any success in doing so. I didn't expect everyone to scrutinize my credentials or give me a grammar 101 lecture on "n/a" when it's frequently used as a place holder to omit or not answer a question.
So have a good day as you basically only wanted to inject that you feel that employment is a fair question and I'm sorry to say that TX law matters much more than your opinion. That and how my New York example (which is true) must be a lie because you obviously know what goes on in all counties in NY with all applications with your "decades" of experience with NYSPRA.
That must be a newer format than I have ever seen, never saw one with an occupation listed up until 1993, but it wouldn't surprise me to see judges putting it on there, as many of them have long records of abusing the process and adding restrictions that were not part of the law. That said, it's still not anywhere in section 400, as you stated, and the likelyhood of such a case slipping by the notice of a NYSR&PA county rep is slim at best. Name the case and I'll check into it. You would actually be surprised how much I know about what goes on in NY, but that's beside the point, you are claiming knowledge of such a case, so reveal it, or retract it.
So have your own nice day, but I should point out that nowhere did I inject anything about employment being a fair question, all I did was watch while you argued with others about their opinion, and yes you did argue, and jump in when you stated that people had lost jobs in OH and NY, but you have yet to present one such case. And then you made your unsupportable statement about the law in NY.
I could care less about n/a, go ahead and try it, what have you got to lose? If they turn you down you still have your other licenses, as you have pointed out, and they can't arrest you or fine you for it, all they can do is refuse it, so be the test case and let us know how that works for you.
Jim,
Last post on the first page, you wrote on the second to last line "So far I have not seen one reasonable reason for NOT putting your employment history on your app". So, unless you retract that, you said it.
I've already told you, the Ohio examples came from NRANews when they covered Ohio extensively when Taft was veto-happy. For New York, it's based off of conversations from the Tresmond folks out by Buffalo, other than that, it''s not any of your concern. it's ok if you don't believe it, besides, the NYSPRA wasn't all that, they didn't put of too much of a fight over Pataki's "5 Points" law in 2000 because they took his word that the AWB a wouldn't be enforced.... Well, they were wrong.
As you know, not all NY licenses look the same, but a google image search of a NY Pistol License should pull up an example of one from as far back as 1933, where they list occupation. If 1993 was when you left then as you know, things got A LOT worse. Hopefully you just changed your address when you moved because if you did your license is still valid, but it has gotten much worse, more counties do seem to issue unrestricted as more people have gotten interested in who they elect for pistol judges, but the assaults from Albany never stop.
Never argued with others about their opinion except for telling them that "n/a" isn't lying, and that personal reasons of mine aren't any of their business why I feel employment isn't necessary.
But yes, my AZ license is good as you say. I'm sure some of the instructors aren't happy as they tend to get up in arms when people on here ask if they can just keep their reciprocal license because it means less money for them. witnessed this in AZ in 2010.
Some people just have a conflict of interest and it seems that fundamental rights are secondary to their CHL "instructor" racket.
Yes, I said that, and I mean it, but it was not the reason I entered the discussion, it was merely an aside, and I still mean it. If you are really that concerned, give it a try and see what happens. Maybe you will be plowing new ground for others here, but I am not at all concerned about it either way.
As a NY State recognized pistol permit instructor I probably, in the 15 or so years that I taught those classes, seen far more pistol permits than you ever have and status of employment was not on them. My grandfather, after he retired and moved to NY to be near his daughter used to take great glee in putting "unemployed" on forms asking for his employment, and I see no reason to suspect that he did anything else when he applied for, and got, his pistol permit. But that, of course, is hearsay and you won't accept it any more than I will accept your citation less referral to some apocryphal happening around Buffalo, and BTW, you never mentioned Ohio cases in the NRA news to me.
And part of the reason I so gladly left NY was due to my observation of the workings of the state government, literally from the inside out, and it is and always has been disgusting. Pataki was a liar, and probably still is, as was Rockefeller, Wilson, Carey, Cuomo the First (I remember listening to him on his car phone, talk to Matilda about his run for President right after denying he was running at a press conference) and all the rest, it's NY City politics brought to Albany, where the majority is from NY City and they will stomp down any opposition. Pataki didn't really need to lie, he would have gotten the bill through even over NYSR&PA's objection, all it did was smooth the waters and cut down on the chances of an upstat filibuster.
I left in 1993, and did change my address, but renewal was denied, just like when I finally moved back to TX after a short stop in IL and the revoked my FOID. Nothing in the law provides for that, so they cited it as an "administrative rule."
And one of the things we fought against for many years was judges adding things to the permits that were not on the form. Yes, the forms have changed some over time, just as TX CHLs now have no "SA/NSA" field on them, but in the days (1960s) when NY's forms were hand filled out or typed punch cards, all the forms came out of the printing office in downtown Albany, and they were all the same across the state. Here is an interesting example though, back when the counties printer their own permits and their was no standard, and this person got away with not listing an employer.
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And I have seen you argue with many people, which was part of the impetus for my joining the conversation, as I knew that Albany, Rensselaer, Greene, Schenctady, Schoharie and several other counties where I taught and resided had no requirement that you enter an employer in order to obtain a permit. Over time I knew several people who applied for and got permits while unemployed in hopes that they would be able to obtain employment in in security or a police agency. I myself applied for my permit while I was employed as a patrolman by the NY State Park Police who did not issue weapons, you provided your own, and if you didn't have a permit, you carried a night stick. My permit had not been issued when I left their employ.
And Jim Tresmond may very well know of such a case, but he has never made it public knowledge, so I find it doubtful.
I am not a TX CHL instructor, so I have no dog in that hunt, but I do have an opinion about people who are residents of my state that dance around the edge of the law by carrying on a permit issued by another state for whatever flimsy reason. You live in TX, and just like providing ID to vote, you should get a TX CHL. If you want to keep your out of state CWPs so you can carry in other states, by all means do so, but this is your primary residence and I am in favor of the law being amended to require TX residents to carry under TX CHLs.
So, once again, since there is no real penalty for doing so, other than rejection of your application, why don't you step up and apply and let us know how you make out?
