TexasCHLforum.com

If Canada was a whole lot more conservative, we could ANNEX 'em!

Liberty wrote:

seamusTX wrote:

Liberty wrote:While I'm sure that is what they intended, We all know from the behavior of Harris County prosecutors that the intentions don't have to actually mean anything.

Yeah, but they get to interpret the rules, and we have to deal with it.

- Jim

Which brings us back to the original question and the answer. DPS gets to interpret the rules. If they were called and reminded them that Canada is indeed a state, a sovereign state, and see if they would/could see it my way. I admit that my premise is a little outlandish, but it wouldn't hurt to call and get an opinion from those really get to interpret the rules. Who knows maybe they will see it in the same outlandish way.

OK. Who wants a free ticket to "Are You As Smart As A 5th Grader" show. I'll pay for the round trip air and hotel cost. Guess what the first question will be?

I cannot believe there is all this debate about such a simple question. The answer, as any fifth grader should know, is to look at the law. And the word state is defined in the law.

The government Code has a section, chapter 311, called the Code Construction Act. It explains how to interpret any law in Texas. Chapter 1 of the Government Code specifically says to use this chapter to interpret the Government Code. And amazingly enough, Chapter 311 has a set of definitions that apply to all codes in Texas.

Specifically, Section 311.005(7) says:

"State," when referring to a part of the United States, includes any state, district, commonwealth, territory, and insular possession of the United States and any area subject to the legislative authority of the United States of America.

From the context of the original law, it is safe to say they were referring to parts of the United States (another section of the Code Construction Act says to use the common meaning). Thus, it means he has to live in the US. But, you will note that the term state does include D.C., Puerto Rico, and a bunch of other places we do not normally think of as states.

srothstein wrote:I cannot believe there is all this debate about such a simple question. The answer, as any fifth grader should know, is to look at the law. And the word state is defined in the law.

The government Code has a section, chapter 311, called the Code Construction Act. It explains how to interpret any law in Texas. Chapter 1 of the Government Code specifically says to use this chapter to interpret the Government Code. And amazingly enough, Chapter 311 has a set of definitions that apply to all codes in Texas.

Specifically, Section 311.005(7) says:

"State," when referring to a part of the United States, includes any state, district, commonwealth, territory, and insular possession of the United States and any area subject to the legislative authority of the United States of America.

From the context of the original law, it is safe to say they were referring to parts of the United States (another section of the Code Construction Act says to use the common meaning). Thus, it means he has to live in the US. But, you will note that the term state does include D.C., Puerto Rico, and a bunch of other places we do not normally think of as states.

My whole intention wasn't to debate the meaning of the word 'state' but to suggest that the meaning could be subject to interpretation. Therefore a phone call or a letter could be worthwhile to get the real scoop. I'm sure most 5th graders would understand this. While I wasn't familiar with the code presented. It still seems to me usage of the word is subject to interpetatation.

Having just put together an application to the U.S. Department of State it doesn't seem that my premise is all that extreme or uncommon even.
`Nuff said ...

Call either the Hurst DPS Sub-District office at 817-284-1490 or the Garland Regional Office at 214-861-2000. Ask for the CHL Trooper - this will be the Trooper who actually handles the local investigations in those areas.. They can probably give you a pretty straight answer. Since you are in Sadler, you might call the Sherman DPS office at 903-813-3430. They don't have a full time CHL Trooper, but will have one trooper assigned to handle any local applications and background checks.

OK, you guys can argue about the meaning of the word "state" if you wish, but here is what I find totally mind boggling...

How is it that a non US citizen living in the United States can get a Texas CHL, but a real, honest to goodness, red blooded American citizen, living in Canada, can not?

What kind of sense does that make???

llwatson wrote:How is it that a non US citizen living in the United States can get a Texas CHL, but a real, honest to goodness, red blooded American citizen, living in Canada, can not?

What kind of sense does that make???

I tried to answer that earlier. DPS cannot easily do a background check on someone who is living abroad.

- Jim

seamusTX wrote:

llwatson wrote:How is it that a non US citizen living in the United States can get a Texas CHL, but a real, honest to goodness, red blooded American citizen, living in Canada, can not?

What kind of sense does that make???

I tried to answer that earlier. DPS cannot easily do a background check on someone who is living abroad.

If he moves to Texas and applies, they still have to do the same check, using Canadian resources. Same for anyone who has lived out of the country.

llwatson wrote:OK, you guys can argue about the meaning of the word "state" if you wish, but here is what I find totally mind boggling...

How is it that a non US citizen living in the United States can get a Texas CHL, but a real, honest to goodness, red blooded American citizen, living in Canada, can not?

What kind of sense does that make???

TX CHL LAW

GC §411.177. ISSUANCE OR DENIAL OF LICENSE. (a) The
department shall issue a license to carry a concealed handgun to an
applicant if the applicant meets all the eligibility requirements and
submits all the application materials. The department may issue a
license to carry handguns only of the categories indicated on the applicant's certificate of proficiency issued under Section 411.189. The
department shall administer the licensing procedures in good faith so
that any applicant who meets all the eligibility requirements and
submits all the application materials shall receive a license. The
department may not deny an application on the basis of a capricious or
arbitrary decision by the department.

It is WRITTEN in the law. You guys are making a mountain out of a mole hill. It is even written twice in that clause I guess because they knew some people would miss or ignore it.
It is also written that NON-CITIZENs (GREEN CARD HOLDERS) are eligible for a CHL. So what is so mind boggling? You live here for six months you get it, not here then NO.

Why nobody argues about US Citizens living overseas in other countries still having to pay taxes in the US, when you are not even here. How about no taxation without perspiration in the borders of this nation?

KBCraig wrote:If he moves to Texas and applies, they still have to do the same check, using Canadian resources. Same for anyone who has lived out of the country.

Do you know for a fact that DPS checks with the foreign country?

I'm not trying to be argumentive. I'd like to know how the system works.

Immigrants and permanent residents have to pass a background check in their country of residence before they are issued a visa. Therefore DPS can be confident that they don't have a criminal history.

When a U.S. citizen runs afoul of the law in another country, that country is supposed to inform the U.S. consulate. (They sometimes don't, but not often.) Therefore the Department of State knows about it. I don't know whether that information makes it back to the U.S. in usable form.

- Jim

seamusTX wrote: Immigrants and permanent residents have to pass a background check in their country of residence before they are issued a visa. Therefore DPS can be confident that they don't have a criminal history.
- Jim

Whhoooaaa...Silver!!!! I think you are assuming that every country has the same judicial management system set up as in the USA. Just like you can check a form for mental health on gun purchase form, the INS form just asks if you have been charged or convicted on several offences within the last 5 years. They have eligibilty rules but also REQUIREMENTS for visas. There is no shall issue in immigration. You could be eligible but not meet the requirements. Background check might be as far as a POLICE REPORT in some countries, there is no NCIC. There is no felony A, B, C, etc. Immigration is a whole other animal, you think CHL law is something. Geez. 6 months wait??? Geez.

seamusTX wrote:

KBCraig wrote:If he moves to Texas and applies, they still have to do the same check, using Canadian resources. Same for anyone who has lived out of the country.

Do you know for a fact that DPS checks with the foreign country?

No, I don't know. But in this case, it doesn't matter what they check for immigrant visas, because he's a U.S. citizen. He's entitled to come and go at will, and can establish his residency in Texas at any time, and apply immediately for a Texas CHL when he does. His background is going to be exactly the same whether he's residing in Texas, or in Canada, and if DPS doesn't have a means to pursue the background check, that's DPS's problem.

Kevin

KBCraig wrote:He's entitled to come and go at will, and can establish his residency in Texas at any time, and apply immediately for a Texas CHL when he does. Kevin

Where is this written because I have noticed some of you saying it? This is giving the impression that CHL is the only one not having a residency requirement and once you cross the border you can apply. Almost everything has a residency requirement for a specific reason. Almost every political office including the Presidency, All Schools Admissions, All Elections, All vehicle registrations, All government benefits, ALMOST ALL LICENSES and on and on and on. Guess CHL is special then.

Lucky45 wrote:Where is this written ...

GC §411.173. NONRESIDENT LICENSE. (a) The department by rule shall establish a procedure for a person who meets the eligibility requirements of this subchapter other than the residency requirement established by Section 411.172(a)(1) to obtain a license under this subchapter if the person is a legal resident of a state another state or if the person relocates to this state with the intent to establish residency in this state.

As I read this, someone could apply for a CHL the day they got off the boat or plane.

It is necessary to have some form of ID that is acceptable to the person taking the fingerprints and the notary stamping the affidavits.

- Jim

seamusTX wrote: Do you know for a fact that DPS checks with the foreign country?

I don't know about every country, but I do know for a fact that one of my former students was denied a Texas CHL because of a criminal record from Mexico.