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Look at the bright side. Charles is reaching an audience that would never visit this forum or consider his positions in other venues. While many will be offended, because they don't think, some will consider his words and possibly even change their minds.

The only thing we have to do is ensure that they don't misrepresent what he says. Meanwhile, logic is winning the argument over emotion, and the left is getting more and more frustrated.

I like your optimism baldeagle.
I must agree!

Alveda King had some nice tweets (Niece of Reverend Martin Luther King, the avid Gunowner/collector who was denied a carry permit)

https://twitter.com/AlvedaCKing" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Alveda King ‏@AlvedaCKing
Evil knows no color. My grandmother Alberta King was shot down & killed by a crazed black man while playing the organ in Church #AMEShooting

Gun control will never be the answer, heart control is what we need.

Talking with @megynkelly tonight about the #CharelstonShooting

My heart goes out to the survivors and families of this unspeakable act of hatred.

Oldgringo wrote:My heart goes out to the survivors and families of this unspeakable act of hatred.

Hatred, I my opinion, is a combination of ignorance, stupidity (yes they are different), and some very narrow minded upbringing...

My Brother is my Brother and my Sister is my Sister regardless of age, race, religion, sexual preference, or any damned thing else. We're all here together!

Hate, in every form is stupidity personified!

How about just wickedness.

carlson1 wrote:How about just wickedness.

1 Peter 5:8
Be of sober spirit, be on the alert Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.

This young man has been devoured.

jmra wrote:

carlson1 wrote:How about just wickedness.

1 Peter 5:8
Be of sober spirit, be on the alert Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.

This young man has been devoured.

For those of you so inclined, do a study on the Greek work pharmacopeia in the NT. It is closely associated with evil spirits.

tomtexan wrote:You can thank Shannon Watts for this.

She is relentless.

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/06/nra-boa ... -churches/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I should point out that the headline is an outright lie. What Charles said was that the Pastor, by his political position, denied his parishioners the right to defend themselves. He never blamed the Pastor for their deaths. Those are obviously the responsibility of the drugged-up 21-year-old.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

ShootDontTalk wrote:Something else to consider: The pastor of this church, who was killed, is a State Legislator in S.C.

And he voted against concealed-carry. Eight of his church members who might be alive if he had expressly allowed members to carry handguns in church are dead.

Chas.

That's some serious victim-blaming, sir. Isn't the murderer in fact the one to blame for the nine dead folks being dead? (I realize that may not fit your agenda, to put the blame squarely where it belongs - at the feet of a guy who used a gun to kill nine innocents in a house of worship - but try for some accuracy. You demean your cause otherwise, I feel.)

Rachel Martin wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

ShootDontTalk wrote:Something else to consider: The pastor of this church, who was killed, is a State Legislator in S.C.

And he voted against concealed-carry. Eight of his church members who might be alive if he had expressly allowed members to carry handguns in church are dead.

Chas.

That's some serious victim-blaming, sir. Isn't the murderer in fact the one to blame for the nine dead folks being dead? (I realize that may not fit your agenda, to put the blame squarely where it belongs - at the feet of a guy who used a gun to kill nine innocents in a house of worship - but try for some accuracy. You demean your cause otherwise, I feel.)

Rachel welcome to the forum.

Rachel Martin wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

ShootDontTalk wrote:Something else to consider: The pastor of this church, who was killed, is a State Legislator in S.C.

And he voted against concealed-carry. Eight of his church members who might be alive if he had expressly allowed members to carry handguns in church are dead.

Chas.

That's some serious victim-blaming, sir. Isn't the murderer in fact the one to blame for the nine dead folks being dead? (I realize that may not fit your agenda, to put the blame squarely where it belongs - at the feet of a guy who used a gun to kill nine innocents in a house of worship - but try for some accuracy. You demean your cause otherwise, I feel.)

Just the first of many I'm sure. I have a feeling it's going to get intense in here in the short term.

Rachel Martin wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

ShootDontTalk wrote:Something else to consider: The pastor of this church, who was killed, is a State Legislator in S.C.

And he voted against concealed-carry. Eight of his church members who might be alive if he had expressly allowed members to carry handguns in church are dead.

Chas.

That's some serious victim-blaming, sir. Isn't the murderer in fact the one to blame for the nine dead folks being dead? (I realize that may not fit your agenda, to put the blame squarely where it belongs - at the feet of a guy who used a gun to kill nine innocents in a house of worship - but try for some accuracy. You demean your cause otherwise, I feel.)

Welcome to the forum. Perhaps you could enlighten us by telling us about your agenda.

Welcome to the Forum, Rachel.

Blame for the murders indeed sits squarely on the person who actualized his evil intent upon these nine victims. My heart aches for the lives lost in such a way, and I pray that this sort of thing doesn't happen again. Whenever we look at tragedy and grief, we like to consider whether other policies and actions of anyone directly involved or nearby could have changed the course of events. IMO, Charles' response is in this vein, and is not blaming the victims but rather positing that different actions before hand MAY (or may not) have resulted in less loss of life, and would certainly have provided a potential force option to be used by those in that room who did not want to be victims. I view myself, Charles, and most of the members on this forum as persons of peace who have an aversion to the idea of being forced to be victims. I sometimes fall into the trap of thinking that everyone else in this world is likewise a similarly rational, peace-loving, deadly risk-averse person, and then get caught up considering a very different viewpoint but to date I haven't found another that seems rational and a good fit for me.

Leveraging tragic events to push an agenda is the central play in the Progressive-Democrat (collectivist - Nanny Government, etc...) playbook. Within minutes of this latest tragedy, speechwriters were honing the rhetoric (featuring well-known talking points) for the Administration. Within hours, Obama took to the airwaves touting "Gun Control" but clearly had more important fund-raising to do so they missed some other talking points, and the DOJ came out on "Hate Crime". All across the Left, the hue and cry began with token condolences tossed in to sound like they care. None of these knee-jerk emotional pleas are really about helping the grieving community or about addressing the real problem (what each person's response to an existential threat or to evil can and should be -- I assume here that most people realize that there is evil in the world and existential threats do occur). These are simply about using an event as a springboard to consolidate power. If the left truly cared about individuals, restricting individual liberty would not be one of their "answers", particularly where it creates potential victims of violence. If they truly cared about individuals and society, breaking down the bedrock of said society -- faith and family -- would not be central to their agenda and policies. While I may regret the timing of the rebuttals to their predicted rhetoric about this tragic event, rebuttal is required else we yield the floor entirely to them and continue down the resultant victim-riddled path to Statist hell.

Rachel Martin wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

ShootDontTalk wrote:Something else to consider: The pastor of this church, who was killed, is a State Legislator in S.C.

And he voted against concealed-carry. Eight of his church members who might be alive if he had expressly allowed members to carry handguns in church are dead.

Chas.

That's some serious victim-blaming, sir. Isn't the murderer in fact the one to blame for the nine dead folks being dead? (I realize that may not fit your agenda, to put the blame squarely where it belongs - at the feet of a guy who used a gun to kill nine innocents in a house of worship - but try for some accuracy. You demean your cause otherwise, I feel.)

Rachel, welcome to the forum.

As a member of my church, I am deeply concerned for the safety of my family and my friends and other members of our church. At our services last night we prayed for the families and other church members from Charleston that are impacted by this horrific event. The pure evil inside of the person (I refuse to say the name) that planned this attack on my fellow followers of Christ is difficult to understand and it is easy to blame God for not protecting these people from the evil. But as a follower of Christ, I understand that evil is present in this world and bad things happen to good people.

I live in the real world and in the real world evil exists and tries to destroy what is good. I also know that if someone is bent on doing bad things, they will find a way regardless of what the law says and regardless of what weapon is available to that evil person. This person had hatred in his heart and even if a gun was not accessible, I believe he would have done the same act with whatever weapon he could find like a knife or a machete.

The gun is not the problem, the problem is the heart of the person who used the gun. I, like so many others on this forum have one or more guns on their person even when attending church services because it is legal to do so. We are not security for the church, we are simply men and women who made the choice to be licensed to carry a gun and be the first line of defense for our own safety and that of our family and others if, God forbid, our lives are in danger by an evil person bent on hurting and killing others.

I don't speak for Charles or anyone else on this forum, but I do not believe anyone here is or ever will blame the victims in this shooting. The blame is on the shooter who has evil in his heart. The state of SC had made possession of a legally owned and carried gun illegal in a place of worship and I do not understand why anyone would think that a place of worship would be immune from violence. Only the law abiding people will follow the law, criminals won't.

mikesurf111 wrote:You people are insane rednecks who love these massacres......its Fd up that you want people to carry guns in churches of all places..let alone other public places. Guess what the developed westernized countries with the most gun related violence, accidents, and deaths is the country with the most guns. Ill let you guys figure out who that is. But the more these massacres happen.. the more we will win this battle. Your argument will fall flat trying to tell people that they should bring guns to church LOl it is almost laughable...and most of you are probably god believers also...because we all know that is what he would want. The height of lunacy is that thinking that the answer to gun violence is more guns. But have fun with this...maybe if you are lucky there will be more massacres...you could orgasm over that every time it happens

Welcome mikesurf111.

You might want to read the forum rules.