The effect of attitude

[Charles L. Cotton]

They don't have to proven it was intentional, look up PC 22.01 and 22.02... all the DA has to prove is he was reckless. Is there any doubt about it?

I didn't see anyone trying to justify what the driver did. To the contrary, everyone including me seems to want him in prison.

However, some people seem to be minimizing the motorcycle "driver's" fault in this situation. He should be charged with and convicted of Deadly Conduct pursuant to TPC §22.05(a). Just as there's no excuse for Mr. Crum's intentional conduct, there's no excuse for the motorcycle "driver's" intentionally doing something that could easily, in fact did, result in serious bodily injury to his passenger. While I would argue that having a mad driver swerve and hit your bike was not foreseeable, it is quite foreseeable that passing in a no passing zone could get your passenger seriously injured or killed.

The only innocent victim in this is the poor woman on the back of the motorcycle.

Chas.

In this incident, I can see Deadly Conduct being reasonable... However, couldnt most traffic violations fall under 22.05(a), such as speeding, running a red light, failing to yield right of way, etc.? Especially if any result in an accident?

I don't think so and we never see the charge filed under those circumstances.

The factors in this case that I see differently are that the guy was not only passing in a no passing zone, he appeared to be going well over the speed limit (he was flying!), he was passing two cars that were not that close together, and the consequences of a collision for a motorcyclist are far more dire than in an automobile with airbags, crush zones, etc. All this said, if a person driving a car with a passenger were passing under these circumstances and a wreck ensued, then I do believe they could be, and likely would be, charged with some criminal violation and TPC §22.05(a) is the most likely.

The driver of the car is getting all of the attention, so I doubt the motorcyclist will even be ticketed, much less charged with a TPC §22.05 offense. The fact is an innocent woman, a mother of three who now cannot work, was seriously injured because of two irresponsible drivers both of whom are refusing to take responsibility for their part in this event. The fact that the driver of the car is a bigger jerk doesn't render the other driver blameless.

Chas.

[mojo84]

I thought I read the motorcycle operator was given two tickets on the scene. He deserved them and maybe even more. His actions were reckless and grossly negligent.

Two people in this incident should suffer severe consequences in my opinion.

[carlson1]

I thought I read the motorcycle operator was given two tickets on the scene. He deserved them and maybe even more. His actions were reckless and grossly negligent.

Two people in this incident should suffer severe consequences in my opinion.

Your correct. Passing in a no passing zone and no motorcycle license.

[Glockster]

I thought I read the motorcycle operator was given two tickets on the scene. He deserved them and maybe even more. His actions were reckless and grossly negligent.

Two people in this incident should suffer severe consequences in my opinion.

Your correct. Passing in a no passing zone and no motorcycle license.

I was out for a ride on my own motorcycle a couple of weeks ago and was taking a break in a nice quiet parking area adjacent to a National Forest and had a great conversation with a Texas Ranger who happened to be turning around but stopped for a moment to admire my bike. He shared with me that Texas has a very high percentage of unlicensed motorcycle operator and is higher than the national average (top four states were California, Ohio, Texas and Virginia). He said that in Texas it is pretty split in that of those unlicensed about half are experienced riders who just didn't bother to get a license, and the other half are typically borrowing a bike to see what it is like, and that was kind of surprising at the time. In general he said that the odds of being caught are very low, and that in half of motorcycle fatalities in Texas the operator is both unlicensed and uninsured (Texas requires a separate policy for motorcycles, so an auto policy provides no coverage). Since that conversation I now worry about both other motorcycles as well as other vehicles, and I have been passed by some doing pretty much what this guy did in the video.

[Keith B]

I thought I read the motorcycle operator was given two tickets on the scene. He deserved them and maybe even more. His actions were reckless and grossly negligent.

Two people in this incident should suffer severe consequences in my opinion.

Your correct. Passing in a no passing zone and no motorcycle license.

I was out for a ride on my own motorcycle a couple of weeks ago and was taking a break in a nice quiet parking area adjacent to a National Forest and had a great conversation with a Texas Ranger who happened to be turning around but stopped for a moment to admire my bike. He shared with me that Texas has a very high percentage of unlicensed motorcycle operator and is higher than the national average (top four states were California, Ohio, Texas and Virginia). He said that in Texas it is pretty split in that of those unlicensed about half are experienced riders who just didn't bother to get a license, and the other half are typically borrowing a bike to see what it is like, and that was kind of surprising at the time. In general he said that the odds of being caught are very low, and that in half of motorcycle fatalities in Texas the operator is both unlicensed and uninsured (Texas requires a separate policy for motorcycles, so an auto policy provides no coverage). Since that conversation I now worry about both other motorcycles as well as other vehicles, and I have been passed by some doing pretty much what this guy did in the video.

My wife and I witnessed an accident where a van tapped the back of a motorcycle in Plano. The bike went over and the rider ended up with a torn shirt, skinned up arm and shoulder, and was limping after getting up. The bike had a broken mirror and the paint on the tank was scratched. We turned around and as we got back to the scene as the van driver was getting back in his van and drove off after talking to the motorcycle rider. The rider had picked up the bike and was pushing it down the road. My wife asked why they hadn't called the police and the van was leaving. I told her my guess was at minimum the rider didn't have a license and didn't want police involved. He may have also had a warrant(s) on him and wanted to avoid contact with law enforcement.

[VMI77]

The driver of the car also has a history of threatening people with harm.

Had not read that.

One of them was interviewed on TV, stating that when he was a boy, the guy threatened him with a shotgun, because his golf cart made too much noise and interrupted his nap.

I think it was FOX channel 4 DFW.

There's more out there....has to be. There is no way someone with such an obvious disregard for the life of another hasn't acted out before, many times. He belongs in prison.

[Glockster]

Tough situation these days as you just never know what happens after the other driver waves off wanting to report the accident, especially with injuries.

[casp625]

I thought I read the motorcycle operator was given two tickets on the scene. He deserved them and maybe even more. His actions were reckless and grossly negligent.

Two people in this incident should suffer severe consequences in my opinion.

Your correct. Passing in a no passing zone and no motorcycle license.

I was out for a ride on my own motorcycle a couple of weeks ago and was taking a break in a nice quiet parking area adjacent to a National Forest and had a great conversation with a Texas Ranger who happened to be turning around but stopped for a moment to admire my bike. He shared with me that Texas has a very high percentage of unlicensed motorcycle operator and is higher than the national average (top four states were California, Ohio, Texas and Virginia). He said that in Texas it is pretty split in that of those unlicensed about half are experienced riders who just didn't bother to get a license, and the other half are typically borrowing a bike to see what it is like, and that was kind of surprising at the time. In general he said that the odds of being caught are very low, and that in half of motorcycle fatalities in Texas the operator is both unlicensed and uninsured (Texas requires a separate policy for motorcycles, so an auto policy provides no coverage). Since that conversation I now worry about both other motorcycles as well as other vehicles, and I have been passed by some doing pretty much what this guy did in the video.

And to think, it's only $15 to get the endorsement on a license once you take a simple test!

[Charles L. Cotton]

I thought I read the motorcycle operator was given two tickets on the scene. He deserved them and maybe even more. His actions were reckless and grossly negligent.

Two people in this incident should suffer severe consequences in my opinion.

Your correct. Passing in a no passing zone and no motorcycle license.

I was out for a ride on my own motorcycle a couple of weeks ago and was taking a break in a nice quiet parking area adjacent to a National Forest and had a great conversation with a Texas Ranger who happened to be turning around but stopped for a moment to admire my bike. He shared with me that Texas has a very high percentage of unlicensed motorcycle operator and is higher than the national average (top four states were California, Ohio, Texas and Virginia). He said that in Texas it is pretty split in that of those unlicensed about half are experienced riders who just didn't bother to get a license, and the other half are typically borrowing a bike to see what it is like, and that was kind of surprising at the time. In general he said that the odds of being caught are very low, and that in half of motorcycle fatalities in Texas the operator is both unlicensed and uninsured (Texas requires a separate policy for motorcycles, so an auto policy provides no coverage). Since that conversation I now worry about both other motorcycles as well as other vehicles, and I have been passed by some doing pretty much what this guy did in the video.

And to think, it's only $15 to get the endorsement on a license once you take a simple test!

Is it a written test only, or is there an actual riding test also?

Chas.

[oljames3]

Is it a written test only, or is there an actual riding test also?

Chas.

Yes, there is an actual riding test, with exceptions.
https://www.dps.texas.gov/DriverLicense ... icense.htm
I got my class M endorsement back in 1964. One test and I'm good for life.

[casp625]

Is it a written test only, or is there an actual riding test also?

Chas.

Yes, there is an actual riding test, with exceptions.
https://www.dps.texas.gov/DriverLicense ... icense.htm
I got my class M endorsement back in 1964. One test and I'm good for life.

To be honest, I completely forgot the rules were changed. I got my Class M a couple months beforeS.B. 1967 took effect September 1st, 2009, so I only took the written test. I remember now that you must now take an approved motorcycle safety course and turn that in before DPS will give you the endorsement!

[Glockster]

I thought I read the motorcycle operator was given two tickets on the scene. He deserved them and maybe even more. His actions were reckless and grossly negligent.

Two people in this incident should suffer severe consequences in my opinion.

Your correct. Passing in a no passing zone and no motorcycle license.

I was out for a ride on my own motorcycle a couple of weeks ago and was taking a break in a nice quiet parking area adjacent to a National Forest and had a great conversation with a Texas Ranger who happened to be turning around but stopped for a moment to admire my bike. He shared with me that Texas has a very high percentage of unlicensed motorcycle operator and is higher than the national average (top four states were California, Ohio, Texas and Virginia). He said that in Texas it is pretty split in that of those unlicensed about half are experienced riders who just didn't bother to get a license, and the other half are typically borrowing a bike to see what it is like, and that was kind of surprising at the time. In general he said that the odds of being caught are very low, and that in half of motorcycle fatalities in Texas the operator is both unlicensed and uninsured (Texas requires a separate policy for motorcycles, so an auto policy provides no coverage). Since that conversation I now worry about both other motorcycles as well as other vehicles, and I have been passed by some doing pretty much what this guy did in the video.

And to think, it's only $15 to get the endorsement on a license once you take a simple test!

Is it a written test only, or is there an actual riding test also?

Chas.

I'm not sure if there are still odd states that don't require it, but in Texas you do a riding test unless you move here with a current endorsement from your previous state. I didn't have to do the riding test here. I'm not sure if TX is still doing it this way, but in some other states they still do, but the riding test can end up being a logistics test as you have to learn to ride without the benefit of being able to get a learner's permit, then make arranangments for getting the motorcycle to the testing location, and provide another licensed driver with vehicle to follow you during your road test as the examiner cannot ride on the motorcycle with you!

[Glockster]

Is it a written test only, or is there an actual riding test also?

Chas.

Yes, there is an actual riding test, with exceptions.
https://www.dps.texas.gov/DriverLicense ... icense.htm
I got my class M endorsement back in 1964. One test and I'm good for life.

I got my motorcycle license (not an endorsement) when I was just over 14. The state I was living in then allowed a restricted motorcycle license at age 14, good for up to 250cc and daylight hours only. When I got my full driver's license it then became an endorsement on that license.

I did have to 10 years later take a road test because the state I was stationed in didn't recognize the license from the last state I was stationed in without a road test - some of us here are no doubt old enough to remember the days of not every state recognizing the license of every other state. So I had to have a friend drive it to the mall across from the DMV while I drove his truck (because I could drive a car on the current license temporarily), and then push my bike across a busy street to the DMV (and if I hadn't passed the road test that would have been a long pushing walk home). And an examiner followed me in another road tester's vehicle.

That was where it got exciting...as we were one block away from returning to the DMV when I was stopped at a stop sign, examiner behind me, some idiot pulled out from in back of the examiner and passed us both, running the stop sign. We had of course been completely following the legal speed limit in the neighborhood, but apparently the other driver was impatient. I was actually starting through the intersection when I glanced in my mirror and saw the idiot coming around, and I stopped. He blew past me, running the stop sign. Now that might have been the end of the story had he not been HEADING TO THE DMV for his road test. So when we pulled up, there he was getting out of his car. The examiner walked over to him and gave him a ticket, for running the stop sign and for driving on a learner permit without a licensed adult in the vehicle. And the examiner walked me inside, took me over to her desk and processed my license herself so I didn't have to wait in line, as she told me that I myself did a great job noticing the guy coming.

And that was my last road test. I did however have to take a safety course every time I got orders to a new base, so have been down that road multiple times.

[treadlightly]

Yes, there is an actual riding test, with exceptions.
https://www.dps.texas.gov/DriverLicense ... icense.htm
I got my class M endorsement back in 1964. One test and I'm good for life.

But be careful - it's easy to unwittingly lose the endorsement. I have friends I rode dirt bikes with back in high school that got together for a ride on rental Harleys and discovered that at a renewal they lost the M on their licenses.

The next time I went in for a renewal, the process was almost finished and I remembered to ask if my motorcycle endorsement was going to survive the renewal. The clerk looked a little surprised and asked, "Oh - do you still want it?"

I seem to remember that was the year I had to tell them my social security number, not originally a requirement for Texas driver's licenses. Maybe there was something different about the renewal paperwork that made it easy for the clerk to overlook extra endorsements.

That, of course, was a while back. In fact, my original social security card states "Not for purposes of identification" in bold type right on the front of the card. Oh, for the old days!

[Glockster]

The next time I went in for a renewal, the process was almost finished and I remembered to ask if my motorcycle endorsement was going to survive the renewal. The clerk looked a little surprised and asked, "Oh - do you still want it?"

Funny, when I got to TX and went in for my license the same thing happened to me -- I noticed it missing from the paperwork they needed me to sign. And same thing, asked if I still wanted it. I said yes, that I still had some bike riding years left in me.