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Meh...I carry my 1911 loaded, one in the chamber, cocked with all safeties off, stuck in the front over my crotch....like a MAN!!

Countryside wrote:Meh...I carry my 1911 loaded, one in the chamber, cocked with all safeties off, stuck in the front over my crotch....like a MAN!!

You will soon "transition" so you now may use the women's room at Target...

ScottDLS wrote:

Countryside wrote:Meh...I carry my 1911 loaded, one in the chamber, cocked with all safeties off, stuck in the front over my crotch....like a MAN!!

You will soon "transition" so you now may use the women's room at Target...

And start carrying a 9mm...

LSUTiger wrote:The cure for ND's is to quit blaming the gun and look in the mirror.

Keep your booger hook off the bang switch until you are ready to fire or take down the weapon for cleaning.

Corrected to more accurately reflect situation for many handguns.

It doesn't make good fail safe engineering sense that the trigger is expected to do different things at different times. It mess with people's minds. That leads to making mistakes.

I'd respectfully suggest that an unloaded firearm can't discharge; it's what I'd call a "factual impossibility". (If there's no round in the chamber, it won't go bang).

With this in mind, if a person doesn't ensure its cleared properly (IE, remove the magazine; lock slide to the rear, or hold it to the rear if your gun doesn't have a slide lock; AND observe/inspect the chamber to ensure its empty) before dry firing (whether for practice or for disassembly), that is negligence on the shooter's part. Safe gun handling isn't specific to one make or model, it's a (or rather should be) a basic skill.

As to the original post regarding "Glock leg" , the finger aught not be on the trigger as part of the draw process (regardless of using a DAO, a DA/SA, or a SA) until you have cleared the holster & presented it to your target with the intent of firing. If you are presenting but not committed to shooting (yet), (ie, TPC 9.04, Threats as Justifiable Force), then you aught to not have your finger on the trigger anyway.

Both of these are, in my humble opinion of course, issues with training & operator error.

As a side anecdotal, I knew a guy that put a round into his own leg while practicing one-handed reloading techniques by racking the slide of his M9 Beretta onto his holster (military training, on a military range). He holstered his gun & yelled "Medic! I've been shot!" The famous quote around the team rooms after that was the medic's reply to him as he sat down his aid bag; "No you __(expletive goes here)__, YOU SHOT YOURSELF!". That mistake, & the tough love by a team mate, ensured that everyone else maintained good trigger finger discipline, & numerous iterations of the same drill over the next several years had no issues with self inflicted gunshot wounds.

Many people are shot & killed by unloaded guns every year...

AdioSS wrote:Many people are shot & killed by unloaded guns every year...

Eh, many folks are shot and killed by guns they erroneously thought were unloaded.

My first handgun and my EDC was/is a CZ 75D Compact. The "D" stands for decocker. It is a DA/SA. I carry everyday with a round in the chamber and the hammer decocked. I keep my thumb on the hammer when I move the gun between the 3 different holsters I use regularly. At the range, I practice the first shot DA. Even though I expect and try to compensate for the heavy first trigger pull, I'm not as accurate as I would like. The SA second shot is great. For me, this is a great gun.

My wife has a Sig P938 which is a small 1911 style gun. She is not yet comfortable with carrying a round in the chamber. I would not be comfortable if I had to rack the slide first. I'm trying to get her to practice at the range from both the cocked and locked condition and the empty chamber condition.

I've fired a Glock and several other striker fired pistols. I don't like the feel of the trigger compared to my CZ or the wife's Sig. Bottom line - if you haven't tried a DA/SA, you definitely should.

many folks are shot and killed by guns they erroneously thought were unloaded.

Folks may be shot and killed WITH guns, but not BY them. Killed BY guns implies that the gun is somehow responsible for the act rather than a person manipulating the trigger. Knowing that we humans are fallible, it is important to remember that it take failure of MORE than one of the safety rules to shoot and/or kill yourself. The NRA Rules are:

ALWAYS keep you gun pointed in a safe direction.
ALWAYS keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot.
ALWAYS keep the gun unloaded until you are ready to use it.

Plain and simply, a gun cannot go off if it isn't loaded. Assuming the gun is not malfunctioning, it will not go off unless something moves the trigger until the sear breaks. A discharged round will strike whatever is in front of the muzzle.

Back on the initial topic... While carrying a gun, it should be loaded because we are ready to use it. It may not always be pointed in a safe direction as we go about our daily lives and it rides along in the holster. So, two rules potentially rendered ineffective if not violated, and we are still safe because a proper holster DOES NOT ALLOW ANYTHING TO MOVE THE TRIGGER. This is preventing unintended discharges via use of good carrying equipment and habits/training, and holds true regardless of which trigger action (DAO, DA/SA, SA and the different mechanical safeties possibly in use) the gun has.

The only DA/SA pistol I ever owned was a HK USPc .40. It could be carried cocked and locked, or decocked. At first I carried it cocked and locked because my other carry gun at the time was a 1911, and I wanted to be consistent. But eventually I carried it decocked and was fine with that too. Sold both pistols a long time ago.

koine2002 wrote:

Mike S wrote:...As to the original post regarding "Glock leg" , the finger aught not be on the trigger as part of the draw process (regardless of using a DAO, a DA/SA, or a SA) until you have cleared the holster & presented it to your target with the intent of firing. If you are presenting but not committed to shooting (yet), (ie, TPC 9.04, Threats as Justifiable Force), then you aught to not have your finger on the trigger anyway...

It's not always due to the finger on the trigger. This guy had an ND due to a bent leather holster that caught the trigger. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topi ... -butt.html

The ND was not due to the bent leather. It was caused by the guy not checking that his gear was still in good condition and not being careful or paying attention while holstering his pistol. There is no reason to rush when holstering your loaded firearm.

It funny to me how the guy says "SAFETY WARNING!" and blames the holster. Blaming a holster for the ND to me is like when people say the gun "just went off." The person not being careful is to blame.

I have 2 Da/Sa guns that I carry often both round in the chamber and hammer forward. 1 is Sig P229 that recently has become my primary carry choice.
De-cocking is not a concern. and I do like the peace of mind of holding the hammer while holstering the gun.
Sa trigger is such a joy to shoot.

I carry a paraordnance P14 Cocked and Locked, several years back I read an article about the FBI HRT pistol trials, part of the trials involved throwing the pistols against a brick wall to see if they would AD if dropped, the paraord failed the trail when the frame cracked after being thrown several times, they went with the HK USP .45, since I have no intention of hurling my defensive handgun against a brick wall I'm sure it will be just fine carried cocked locked and thumb strap between hammer and firing pin! give this some thought a 1911 carried cocked and locked has to have two safeties disengaged before it will fire, the slide safety must be disengaged, the grip safety must be depressed and the trigger pulled fully to the rear! My 2cents