Re: Government shutdown
Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:34 pm
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Government shutdown
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Re: Government shutdown
Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:35 pm
I believe the question was answered. I am all for a wall. The legislative branch and republican'ts failed to send the appropriate legislation to the President.
Re: Government shutdown
Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:45 pm
G26ster wrote: Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:20 pm Please folks, spare me the tears over the poor unpaid gov't workers. In no so called shutdown has any gov't worker permanently lost any money. They will be paid. I don't recall during my lean years of layoffs, or furloughs, the gov't or anyone else shedding a tear for me.
They will be paid late but they will be paid. Even the ones who don't work. No, no, no. I mean even the ones who OFFICIALLY aren't working during this boondoggle.
I think they should give the "non-essential" employees three options:
1. Work and get paid. Your paycheck will be late but you know your employer is good for it, eventually.
2. Take vacation or other paid time off.
3. Don't work and don't get paid.
Actually, I think the federal government should get rid of unneeded employees, instead of giving them time off with pay, but apparently I'm deplorable for even thinking such a thing.
Re: Government shutdown
Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:23 pm
Starting with the TSA and other agencies that trash the Constitution on a daily basis...Ameer wrote: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:45 pm Actually, I think the federal government should get rid of unneeded employees, instead of giving them time off with pay, but apparently I'm deplorable for even thinking such a thing.
Re: Government shutdown
Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:30 am
No pay No Work!! All government employees should stay home... Then let's see who holds who hostage.
Re: Government shutdown
Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:35 am
Big difference between non-essential and not needed.Ameer wrote: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:45 pm ....
Actually, I think the federal government should get rid of unneeded employees, instead of giving them time off with pay, but apparently I'm deplorable for even thinking such a thing.
Re: Government shutdown
Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:08 pm
Not really. At least not IMHO. Let's allow this shutdown to keep going for another month. Then take a poll and ask folks which services they missed. Anything with less than a 60% "yes I missed this" vote gets closed permanently. I would guess that VERY few of the "non-essential" employees would have a job after that. Oh, and we get the added benefit of no deficit!jmorris wrote: Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:35 amBig difference between non-essential and not needed.Ameer wrote: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:45 pm ....
Actually, I think the federal government should get rid of unneeded employees, instead of giving them time off with pay, but apparently I'm deplorable for even thinking such a thing.
Re: Government shutdown
Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:24 pm
IMHO.I disagree. If you have a store that requires 10 employees to adequately staff, to stock shelves, to handle customer service, etc, but you could just barely keep the doors open with four, the other six could be considered non-essential, but would be needed.Soccerdad1995 wrote: Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:08 pmNot really. At least not IMHO. Let's allow this shutdown to keep going for another month. Then take a poll and ask folks which services they missed. Anything with less than a 60% "yes I missed this" vote gets closed permanently. I would guess that VERY few of the "non-essential" employees would have a job after that. Oh, and we get the added benefit of no deficit!jmorris wrote: Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:35 amBig difference between non-essential and not needed.Ameer wrote: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:45 pm ....
Actually, I think the federal government should get rid of unneeded employees, instead of giving them time off with pay, but apparently I'm deplorable for even thinking such a thing.
Now, if you believe there are services the government provides that aren't needed, that I'd agree with.
Re: Government shutdown
Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:56 pm
I think the better analogy is if you had 3 stores all selling the same thing, right next to each other, in a town with a population of 25. You only need 1 store (at most). I am saying that there are ALOT of duplicative agencies out there that we really don't need at all.jmorris wrote: Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:24 pmIMHO.I disagree. If you have a store that requires 10 employees to adequately staff, to stock shelves, to handle customer service, etc, but you could just barely keep the doors open with four, the other six could be considered non-essential, but would be needed.Soccerdad1995 wrote: Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:08 pmNot really. At least not IMHO. Let's allow this shutdown to keep going for another month. Then take a poll and ask folks which services they missed. Anything with less than a 60% "yes I missed this" vote gets closed permanently. I would guess that VERY few of the "non-essential" employees would have a job after that. Oh, and we get the added benefit of no deficit!jmorris wrote: Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:35 amBig difference between non-essential and not needed.Ameer wrote: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:45 pm ....
Actually, I think the federal government should get rid of unneeded employees, instead of giving them time off with pay, but apparently I'm deplorable for even thinking such a thing.
Now, if you believe there are services the government provides that aren't needed, that I'd agree with.
Just off the top of my head..... What does the Department of Education do that cannot be done by existing state and local government educational agencies? What does ATF do that cannot be done by the FBI, and state / local law enforcement agencies? Do we really need a separate agency just to focus on regulating 3 things that are all legal?
Re: Government shutdown
Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:25 pm
Here's my take on this...
Essential: Needed to protect life, liberty, and property
Non-essential: Needed to operate government functions not related to the protection of Life, liberty, and property)
Unneeded: People whose jobs do not have a significant work load when they get back.
An example of an essential job would be Air traffic controllers, an example of an non-essential job would be the FAA administrators responsible for licensing, while an example of an unneeded job would be the congressional barber shop staff.
Consider that pilots who need to renew their certifications can test during the 'shutdown' because the testing centers are private parties but pilots will not receive a new or renewed certificate until after everyone goes back to work and gets caught up to where that pilot is in the system. New Amateur radio licensees will not get their call signs until after the shutdown ends. The thing that annoys me about the shutdown is that once people come back and get their checks issued to them for the 'time off' during the shutdown we will have to pay them overtime to get caught back up.
Essential: Needed to protect life, liberty, and property
Non-essential: Needed to operate government functions not related to the protection of Life, liberty, and property)
Unneeded: People whose jobs do not have a significant work load when they get back.
An example of an essential job would be Air traffic controllers, an example of an non-essential job would be the FAA administrators responsible for licensing, while an example of an unneeded job would be the congressional barber shop staff.
Consider that pilots who need to renew their certifications can test during the 'shutdown' because the testing centers are private parties but pilots will not receive a new or renewed certificate until after everyone goes back to work and gets caught up to where that pilot is in the system. New Amateur radio licensees will not get their call signs until after the shutdown ends. The thing that annoys me about the shutdown is that once people come back and get their checks issued to them for the 'time off' during the shutdown we will have to pay them overtime to get caught back up.
Re: Government shutdown
Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:59 pm
Re: Government shutdown
Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:10 pm
The only pilot certificates with an expiration date are Instructor certificates. Other than that, your license(s) have no expiration date. "Currency" expires, but there are no new certificates required when getting current again.G.A. Heath wrote: Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:25 pm Here's my take on this...
Essential: Needed to protect life, liberty, and property
Non-essential: Needed to operate government functions not related to the protection of Life, liberty, and property)
Unneeded: People whose jobs do not have a significant work load when they get back.
An example of an essential job would be Air traffic controllers, an example of an non-essential job would be the FAA administrators responsible for licensing, while an example of an unneeded job would be the congressional barber shop staff.
Consider that pilots who need to renew their certifications can test during the 'shutdown' because the testing centers are private parties but pilots will not receive a new or renewed certificate until after everyone goes back to work and gets caught up to where that pilot is in the system. New Amateur radio licensees will not get their call signs until after the shutdown ends. The thing that annoys me about the shutdown is that once people come back and get their checks issued to them for the 'time off' during the shutdown we will have to pay them overtime to get caught back up.
Re: Government shutdown
Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:13 pm
Replace "government shutdown" with agency dissolutions! Department of Indoctrination would be good place to start.Soccerdad1995 wrote: Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:56 pmI think the better analogy is if you had 3 stores all selling the same thing, right next to each other, in a town with a population of 25. You only need 1 store (at most). I am saying that there are ALOT of duplicative agencies out there that we really don't need at all.jmorris wrote: Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:24 pmIMHO.I disagree. If you have a store that requires 10 employees to adequately staff, to stock shelves, to handle customer service, etc, but you could just barely keep the doors open with four, the other six could be considered non-essential, but would be needed.Soccerdad1995 wrote: Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:08 pmNot really. At least not IMHO. Let's allow this shutdown to keep going for another month. Then take a poll and ask folks which services they missed. Anything with less than a 60% "yes I missed this" vote gets closed permanently. I would guess that VERY few of the "non-essential" employees would have a job after that. Oh, and we get the added benefit of no deficit!jmorris wrote: Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:35 amBig difference between non-essential and not needed.Ameer wrote: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:45 pm ....
Actually, I think the federal government should get rid of unneeded employees, instead of giving them time off with pay, but apparently I'm deplorable for even thinking such a thing.
Now, if you believe there are services the government provides that aren't needed, that I'd agree with.
Just off the top of my head..... What does the Department of Education do that cannot be done by existing state and local government educational agencies? What does ATF do that cannot be done by the FBI, and state / local law enforcement agencies? Do we really need a separate agency just to focus on regulating 3 things that are all legal?
Re: Government shutdown
Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:07 pm
I know this, but the general public does not so I phrased it in a manner I would not have to explain. It's kinda like the public not knowing the difference between a magazine and clip, the difference between a hacker and a cracker, or the difference between the scavenging effect and back pressure in an automotive exhaust application.G26ster wrote: Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:10 pmThe only pilot certificates with an expiration date are Instructor certificates. Other than that, your license(s) have no expiration date. "Currency" expires, but there are no new certificates required when getting current again.G.A. Heath wrote: Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:25 pm Here's my take on this...
Essential: Needed to protect life, liberty, and property
Non-essential: Needed to operate government functions not related to the protection of Life, liberty, and property)
Unneeded: People whose jobs do not have a significant work load when they get back.
An example of an essential job would be Air traffic controllers, an example of an non-essential job would be the FAA administrators responsible for licensing, while an example of an unneeded job would be the congressional barber shop staff.
Consider that pilots who need to renew their certifications can test during the 'shutdown' because the testing centers are private parties but pilots will not receive a new or renewed certificate until after everyone goes back to work and gets caught up to where that pilot is in the system. New Amateur radio licensees will not get their call signs until after the shutdown ends. The thing that annoys me about the shutdown is that once people come back and get their checks issued to them for the 'time off' during the shutdown we will have to pay them overtime to get caught back up.
Re: Government shutdown
Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:45 pm
I think you're agreeing with me. Duplication should be eliminated, unnecessary departments eliminated, but within organizations there are very few existing positions not needed to make it work. There are ones that, for a short while, you can do without but in the long term will have a sever impact. That was true of the two shutdowns I was involved in before retirement. And my department (IT) had been cut to the bone already over two or three years.Soccerdad1995 wrote: Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:56 pm .....
I think the better analogy is if you had 3 stores all selling the same thing, right next to each other, in a town with a population of 25. You only need 1 store (at most). I am saying that there are ALOT of duplicative agencies out there that we really don't need at all.
Just off the top of my head..... What does the Department of Education do that cannot be done by existing state and local government educational agencies? What does ATF do that cannot be done by the FBI, and state / local law enforcement agencies? Do we really need a separate agency just to focus on regulating 3 things that are all legal?
(Your three store analogy reminds me of the cartoon where two Starbucks executives are talking. "I think we need to slow down our expansion a bit. We just opened a Starbucks inside a Starbucks.)