txinvestigator wrote:What ever happend to putting others first?
Perhaps you should address that question to the hostess, who extended the invitation, then asked LEDjedi to leave "that thing" at home.
Courtesy is a two-way street. Someone who imposes limits on their hospitality should take absolutely no offense if someone declines the invitation based on those limits. Jeff isn't demanding to carry there despite their wishes. There's no easy way to weasel out, since (if I recall the exchange correctly), he'd already accepted before the hostess set the conditions. If she'd said, "We'd like everyone to come, but no guns, please!", then a simple "Our regrets, but we won't be able to make it" would suffice.
I doubt we'll see this one in Miss Manners' column.
KBCraig wrote:Courtesy is a two-way street. Someone who imposes limits on their hospitality should take absolutely no offense if someone declines the invitation based on those limits.
Two things we keep repeating: handguns are morally neutral tools, and they are safe when handled properly.
What if a host told a guest who had diabetes not to bring insulin into the home because she was afraid of needles?
That probably doesn't make sense. I'm still on my first cup of coffee.
I personally agree seamus.
Needle fobia in the heart of a recovered drug addict is as foolish a gun fobia in the heart of an unrecovered anti.
My .02cents & some think it worth about half that.
LT
Carry 24-7 or guess right.
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KBCraig wrote:
Courtesy is a two-way street. Someone who imposes limits on their hospitality should take absolutely no offense if someone declines the invitation based on those limits.
Exactly right. I have no right to carry on someone's PRIVATE property if they so demand. However, I have no obligation to attend an event, puchase their goods or services (if a business) either.
Personally, depending on how well I like someone (or the others that may be there), I may attend even with leaving the the firearm left in the car.
I usually don't get offended by ignorance re: firearms. If the host/hostess has a problem based on ignorance, I can understand that. When they understand and don't base their opinion on reality, and become militant and obnoxious, that's when I have a problem and probably would decline any invitation.
This does not apply to public property. I have a 2nd amendment right to carry on 'my' (public) property.
Would just like to give an update on how the situation is playing out.
He actually responded back himself (not the wife) with a pretty emotional response basically saying i have a problem with authority. He wasn't being rude, just sort of playing the counselor role, which he often does with friends. And then expressed that he didn't understand why I couldn't put the gun down and just come socialize with friends.
now keep in mind we're good friends and were very close at one point (when he was my manager previously) but i changed jobs and we haven't talked much over the past 2-3 years. I've known he was basically anti-gun, we've had a few friendly debates about it. I'm aware of his feelings on the situation. However he was not really aware that during the last 2-3 years I have become increasingly aware of both the need to preserve my rights and to protect myself.
This point became clear about six months ago during planning for his bachelor party. I had a little sit down with him (knowing how he felt about guns) and pointed out that I have started to take this stuff more seriously lately and that i basically stay armed 24/7. The bachelor party was supposed to be a road trip out of town and I simply wasn't going unarmed in that situation. I asked him how he felt about that, because i did not want to make him uncomfortable. (I really do care about this guys' feelings)
He basically thanked me for the consideration and said guns have always made him nervous and he didn't like the idea but it was a free country and I could do as I liked. So i tossed back that I would be happy to go, and would keep concealed even in private settings and would even go so far as to avoid the conversation if it came up because it might make him uncomfortable. That seemed a good compromise and we were both basically satisfied. Turns out i didn't get to go to the bachelor party anyway for other reasons.
As for not going into a friend's home unarmed... It's not really a security issue. Statistically we're unlikely to be in much danger in that situation (though you never know). I've thought long about this the past day or two and tried to figure out how to put my feelings on the situation into words. To me this is comparable to maybe going into my own grandmother's lunch cafe (family business) and for the first time there's a sign on the door that says "whites only" or something like that. Now, i'm a big strapping Caucasian. If you've ever seen Weird Al's White and Nerdy video, that's me.
In that situation, i would simply choose not to patronize the business any longer. Yes, even if it's my own grandmothers. I'll visit her house perhaps because she's family but probably not as often as i should. The only reason i would visit at her home would be because she's family and because i love my grammy. I would not, however, set one toe in the door of that cafe until that sign was removed and I saw equal service for everyone inside.
This guy is a friend (and i like to think a good one), but he is not my grammy so i won't be going to his home unarmed. I will also not be going to his home armed, against his wishes. He's entirely too good of a friend for that. I've also made it known that we would love to get together and have dinner or go out, but he should be aware that in those situations both myself and my wife will be armed.
I dont tell him this to alarm him, i tell him because i know he has strong feelings on the matter and I choose to respect his feelings. And, I made clear my motivation for telling him was out of respect for his feelings, not to press my beliefs on him. I also told him we would be happy to attend any event in the future he chooses to invite us to (if we are able) but that we will attend said event armed as it is now our general policy to do so. So if he is uncomfortable with that then perhaps an invitation would be inappropriate.
It could very well be that I lose a friendship over this. I seriously doubt it though. Our friendship has weathered more than a declined party invitation, trust me. This too shall pass. If for some reason it doesn't, then in my book, such is life. I will move on, he will move on and there will be no ill will on my part (and i doubt his). We simply agree to disagree. Not all friendships can do that, your mileage my vary.
I would be silly to think that this could have no effect on my working relationship. I am not so young as to not see that. I also know this guy pretty well and I doubt that would be an issue. If it is, then there are other jobs in the world.
For those that gasp at comparing race bigotry to basically what i see as gun bigotry, I apologize that you may be offended by not seeing the parallel, I do and it's a moral choice for me. Friends and sometimes even family are not above morality.
I ask myself now why i'm sharing this to this level of detail with the group. At first i was just curious how many folks have run into this situation. Now, i think it's more of an eye opener that some folks on the board may very much benefit from.
a note to txinvestigator... thanks for your opinion man, it's always valuable to me. we dont agree on this one, but I do appreciate you sharing your perspective as always.
OK here is my input. First I agree with txinvertigator and DaveT. For most of us here as average working class American's we are not going to end our life with a pocket full of money(rich). The most important thing's we will gain through life are family and friend's. Good friend's are a very important part of life. I personally would never risk lossing a good friend over my right to tote. If it were me I would ablidge the host and leave my pistol in my car. I would enjoy the party and enjoy other's there. I would not lose one minute of sleep over leaving my gun in my car. Life is just to short not to enjoy it and you only get one shot at it. I have alot of friend's and I don't think any of them agree with me on everything, but they don't have to. They are my friend's. My wife and I have two grown children, one I believe votes to the right and the other I know votes to the left. I don't tell them how to vote just to vote and be part of the process. Your friend's wife asking you not to pack at thier party does not make either one of them a bad person. Just my thoughts.
Nope, never said it did. I simply choose not to associate with events where my I am not allowed to express what I believe in. I dont judge them right or wrong for their belief, just different and different enough that I can't support it.
Honestly, even if i was planning on drinking at the party and therefore not being armed anyway, i still would not go simply because it was banned. I also very rarely go to bars for the same reason and avoid 30.06 posted businesses. I dont want to be where my gun is not welcome.
SkipB wrote:Your friend's wife asking you not to pack at thier party does not make either one of them a bad person.
LedJedi wrote:I dont want to be where my gun is not welcome.
The other issue is leaving your gun in your car is generally a bad idea (unless you have a decent method to lock it up), so in reality you need to leave your gun home.
I have never understood the no guns in home mentality. Would they ban them if you were a LEO? What if someone was raping someone, would they not want you to go out to the car and retrieve it to stop the rape? I just do not get it, unless they think YOU are unsafe with a gun (no offense intended).
txinvestigator wrote:
What ever happend to putting others first?
So does that mean you are volunteering to be robbed first during a home invasion?
I didn't realize that a home invasion was part of the the evening in question. when was the last time a "Party" was subjec to a home invasion?
Good lord, life is fraught with danger. All we all so scared we cannot honor a friend's request to be unarmed in his home?
I carry EVERYWHERE, but if a friend asked me to not carry in his home at a party, I would certainly honor his request. I guess I am just not that paranoid.
*CHL Instructor*
"Speed is Fine, but accuracy is final"- Bill Jordan
Remember those who died, remember those who killed them.
Throw a CHL party, invite your boss and his wife, and when it is over and they had a blast, laet them know that every single person in the room was armed. They will feel foolish....
The only "party" that I can remember being subject to a home invasion happend here in Clear Lake a few years ago. I DO NOT know if this multiple homicide was drug related or any of the other circumstances surrounding it.
This is not an uncommon occurence. If someone issues open invitations for friends to bring guests who are not known to the host, there's a chance one of those third parties will be a shady character.
txinvestigator wrote:when was the last time a "Party" was subjec to a home invasion?
Don't forget Crandon & Tyler Peterson. It does happen. It may not be common, but the people at the parties mentioned didn't expect it to happen either.
I would honor the request and go (as I have done for friends previously) as well, but would certainly do so recognizing that there is an additional element of risk involved. I don't usually talk much about my position on firearms except with my wife and son, but I do occasionally get the "can you leave it at home" request (the latest was for a Halloween party - wouldn't have fit in with my costume anyway 'cause I went as a hippie ).
when was the last time a "Party" was subjec to a home invasion?
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