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srothstein wrote:

nitrogen wrote:If the police don't want to have a problem with this, they shouldn't pull people over in unmarked cars. End of discussion.

The fact that this problem exists is due to poor policy by police departments to use easily counter fitted, unmarked cars.

What about all of those easily counterfeited marked cars? After all, other than the bar on top, how much of the markings can you really see whan a patrol car pulls up behind you? Consider that again at night with the cars headlights on? In reality, you cannot see if the car is marked or not and there are what we call slicktops out there too. These are marked cars but have the lights in the dash and grill instead of overhead.

Good point; I really didn't think about that

My personal opinion, BTW, is that you are correct about not using unmarked cars for traffic and I think those stealth marked cars (green on green or gray on silver type cars) are all illegal. I also don't like slicktops.

All of this came about because police started writing tickets for revenue instead of safety. If we were truly safety oriented, we would have the gaudiest marked cars we can patrolling. That way, people will slow down and obey the law more. At least they will think there are more patrol cars because they will see more of them and it has a small deterrence effect. Unmarked cars, stealth marked cars, and slicktops are all designed to catch the eprson in the act. For traffic, that means we want to write the tickets instead of deter and moeny is the only excuse I can see for that.

I can agree with this, but I didn't want to go there, lest I be seen as "bashing"
How can those cars be illegal? is there something in TX state code that says "Police cars must be marked in such and such a way"?

srothstein wrote:

Liberty wrote:The Feds allow 2 each 1 liter bottles to be brought in at the border and into the Cruise terminals, but Texas penalizes its citizens and only allows 1 liter bottles. what will TABC do to someone who brings in two bottles. The 1 bottle limit on only Texans does seem draconian and unfair. My state allows folks from other states two carry off the boat but penalizes us just for being Texans.

Our current policy on people with more than the limit is that they are free to return the alcohol out of the state, or find someone in their group (and we have no idea what the group is so it really could be anyone) who will bring it in for them. We only worry that the person bringing in the alcohol is legally allowed to (over 21) and not over the limit. Most of the duty free shops will give the person a refund if we do not allow the purchase in the state, as will msot of the Mexican vendors that are near the border. We generally only seize the liquor if there is no other option available to the person or he decides to just forfeit it. Obviously, this is the working policy and not a written rule, so legally, the TCO could seize it the first time the person walks up.

Sounds pretty reasonable. Confiscation isn't what I was concerned about, but I thought there could be large fines or jail or something for trying to bring in the 2 bottles instead of the one. I didn't even think about the under 21 issues. I do believe they should allow the 2 bottles to be consistant with the feds though.

Thanks for clearing it up, and apologies for the hijack, but its an issue I've long wondered about, and Steve is the expert.

nitrogen wrote:

srothstein wrote:
My personal opinion, BTW, is that you are correct about not using unmarked cars for traffic and I think those stealth marked cars (green on green or gray on silver type cars) are all illegal. I also don't like slicktops.

I can agree with this, but I didn't want to go there, lest I be seen as "bashing"
How can those cars be illegal? is there something in TX state code that says "Police cars must be marked in such and such a way"?

I am one of those officers who has always believed traffic laws should be safety based, so I don't consider reasonable arguments about the money thing to be bashing. It only becomes that way when someone says that is all any cop does or something like that. There are a lot of cops out there who only write tickets for safety reasons.

But, I came to the conclusion that the state is primarily interested in tickets for the financial resource when they passed the new surchage law a few years ago. It was passed solely as a finance bill and is, IMHO, clearly written solely for the money aspect.

As for the stealth cars, it is a combination of the way the law is written and an AG opinion. The law says that any car with exempt plates will be marked with letter 2 inches tall and in a contrasting color. It specifies that a police car used for undercover work can be exempted from this requirement if the Chief certifies the need. This, combined with the section allowing regular plates for some police cars, is what allow unmarked cars.

But a few years ago (around 2003 IIRC) there was a company that came up with a business model to help cities get new police cars by selling the space on them for advertising. If a city agreed to use the car for three years, and sell some space to a local company for a set rate, then the company would sell the rest of the space to national companies and lease the car to the city for $1 per year. Some people think this will lead to corruption in police work (I think it looks unprofessional and can see some potential for abuse) so they fought it. The AG read the law and came out with a ruling that said that only the types of markings specified in the law were legal, so a police car could not carry advertising. Since the non-contrasting markings are not specified in the law, I read them as illegal.

Just want to share a situation involving a slick top in Swamp City. It was about 3 am on Saturday Morning. Traffic lights are set to flash red in all directions. Treat it as a four way stop, right? Slick top stops as required. Citizen approches on his right side and stops as well. LEO in slick top is using MDT (in car computer for you not familar) so he waves citizen to go ahead. Citizen rolls down window, flips off LEO! Too stoned to realize he is doing this to LEO. It should be noted that although a "slick top" this is a white crown vic with HOUSTON POLICE in REFLECTIVE blue lettering covering both side doors, it is night time and the lettering is glowing. Slick top performs routine traffic stop. Citizen is an intoxicated minor in possession of (can you belive it?) marijuana and alchohol. With a waterpipe in his center console drink holder! I wonder if the presence of a roof top light bar would have made a difference on this one.

anygunanywhere wrote:I agree, KB. This was kinda the point I was driving at. If the current trend continues I expect to see SWAT running radar traps.

Oops. Did I say trap?

What is a "speed trap" and give an example of one that I could drive by and check out?

Common one is a motorcycle unit that sits at the offramp of GBTP before the Garland/Sache-Wylie exit :D

txinvestigator wrote:

nitrogen wrote:If the police don't want to have a problem with this, they shouldn't pull people over in unmarked cars. End of discussion.

Nice in theory, but impratical.

I can see what someone would think that way, but it is just simply not practical.

I agree that it isnt practical. What would be nice, is if an officer who patrols desolate places has to pull someone over at night, they could get on the intercom and tell the driver to procede to the nearest gas station or whatever.

This would be safe for both officer and motorist.

nitrogen wrote:Common one is a motorcycle unit that sits at the offramp of GBTP before the Garland/Sache-Wylie exit :D

Or, before (and even now) the new ramp off of 410 that exits to Castle Hills.

It is either 55 or 60 there on 410, you round the curve of the off ramp and your in Castle Hills baby, 35mph :)

I got busted at night when i was radared even before reaching the 35mph sign, still doing about 50mph :(

Odin wrote:

anygunanywhere wrote:I agree, KB. This was kinda the point I was driving at. If the current trend continues I expect to see SWAT running radar traps.

Oops. Did I say trap?

What is a "speed trap" and give an example of one that I could drive by and check out?

Gotcha. Hook, line, and sinker.

Anygun

trap
–noun
1. a contrivance used for catching game or other animals, as a mechanical device that springs shut suddenly.
2. any device, stratagem, trick, or the like for catching a person unawares.

If the speed limit is clearly marked then it is not a trap. The fact that a driver wasn't observant of the change in speed limits is not evidence of a "trap".

Since the prima facie speed limit in an urban district on a street other than an alley is 30mph then even the absence of a sign is probably not a guaranteed defense to a speeding ticket if you're busted going over 30mph off the highway in town.

Just because the motor jock is hiding near an area where the speed limit decreases in an attempt to catch careless drivers doesn't make it a "trap" IMO. I've had more than one speeding ticket in my life, and though I may have given myself a break had I been in the officer's position I never was upset at their decision to ticket me. I knew the rules when I got behind the wheel and I chose to disregard them by speeding. Speeding is a calculated risk that a person decides is worth the potential ticket when they choose to speed.

Personal responsibility is a virtue that is fast becoming extinct.

Hiding or using an unmarked vehicle sounds like a stratagem or the like for catching a person unawares.

"Personal responsibility is a virtue that is fast becoming extinct."

cbr600 wrote:Hiding or using an unmarked vehicle sounds like a stratagem or the like for catching a person unawares.

Are you suggesting that you only obey traffic laws when a marked police unit is in plain sight? If you obey traffic laws all the time then it doesn't matter what the police drive or where they park when running radar.

I have a solution for it..but noone will like it

Same solution for people that get in high speed evasion from LEO that result in a high speed chase

ZERO TOLERANCE and immediate execution...PERIOD!

If you purposefully camouflage yourself as a LEO and pull people over and are caught..you are immediately executed
If you run from the police and are captured on video...you are immediately executed

two or three of these and people would STOP doing it

Molon_labe wrote:I have a solution for it..but noone will like it

Same solution for people that get in high speed evasion from LEO that result in a high speed chase

ZERO TOLERANCE and immediate execution...PERIOD!

<snip>
If you run from the police and are captured on video...you hang

two or three of these and people would STOP doing it

In the stories we've seen in Houston, the offense that leads to the chase is relatively minor, but to escape that, the runner winds up on the hook for vehicular manslaughter.