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Folk,
Hope and pray that you never have to use that concealed handgun you're licensed to carry.

The Oldgringo said that...

Chemist45 wrote:Massad Ayoob has discussed this topic at length.
His advice is to be the one who calls 911 and tell them as little as possible: There's been a shooting, the location, send and ambulance etc.
Once the police arrive he recommends you say something to the effect of:
"Officer, I'm the one who called you.
He attacked me. There is his gun, knife, club etc.
There are the shell casings.
Those people are witnesses."
While pointing all these things out.
He then recommends you say something along the lines of "I'm sure you understand I want to wait for my lawyer to arrive before I give my full statement."

His point is to help the officers find the evidence and witnesses that will help your case but not to incriminate yourself.

Seems like good advice.

That sounds about right. I dont think id tell a cop "im not in the right mental state" LOL

israel67 wrote:

seamusTX wrote:Joseph Conrad was not a native speaker of English and did not publish anything until he was more than 40 years old. He is one of the most respected and widely read authors of his period.

Don't talk to me about Conrad, dude .. we had to do Lord Jim for our teacher training. I hated him !!

seamusTX wrote: Anything is possible if you don't write yourself off. Nothing is possible if you do.

Not quite true. For example, my dad was in the RAF during WWII. If I wanted to follow in his footsteps, nothing (short of an intervention by The Almighty to warp and space and time continuum, move me back to when I was 21 and give me perfect eyesight) could conceivably make that possible.

Nah. S'too late. I'll just content myself with getting to a reasonably ripe old age, and then hope that reincarnation exists, and I can make a better job of the next life, than I did of this one.

But if reincarnation does exist and you are a reincarnation of yourself now, you would never have known it :P

On the topic of talking/not-talking to LEO's after a shoot...

Do you holster your weapon and wave your CHL over your head? In an LEO's mind would that help defuse the situation prior to the questioning?

Purplehood wrote:On the topic of talking/not-talking to LEO's after a shoot...

Do you holster your weapon and wave your CHL over your head? In an LEO's mind would that help defuse the situation prior to the questioning?

I won't holster my sidearm until I am sure the situation is safe. If I had a reason to draw and fire, I probably won't feel like the situation is safe until the responding LEO show up. And I for one, will not be waving anything around when the LEO show up; Weapon, CHL or otherwise.

When I call 911, I will give them my location, my description, the fact that there has been a shooting, the fact that I am armed and have a CHL, and the fact that I was in fear of my life. I won't say who shot who. I won't say 'He had a gun.' I won't assess the BG's medical condition. I will absolutely not say 'I killed him.' I simply won't give any further description.

If the dispatcher wants to keep asking questions or keep me talking, I will keep the line open and place the phone on the ground. I'm not going to be interviewed in the immediate aftermath of what will probably be the most traumatic experience of my life. One of the things that continues to surprise me is how many people say they will not give a statement or have an interview with the police without an attorney, but will talk freely to the 911 operator. The 911 call is one of the most easily admitted pieces of evidence the prosecutor has.

When the LEO get there, they can take control of the situation, and I will place my sidearm on the ground, or wherever they want me to. The only statement I will make is, "Sir, I was scared for my life and I was forced to defend myself. I'm pretty shaken up right now, and do not wish to make a statement at this time."

You will NOT be 100% accurate during the adrenaline dump you will be going through, and any lie or misstatement can get you in a lot of hot water. For instance, most officers cannot accurately recall how many shots they fired during a shooting. There are plenty of people who have fired until slide lock and thought they had only fired 2-3 times. What looks like a gun might have been a cell phone. If you tell them you saw a gun, and then there is no gun, you can't go back and say, 'well, I thought I saw a gun.' You'll be crucified.

The prosecutors job is to make the best case he can, not necessarily carry out justice. Like it or not, that's the system we have. Admittedly, in Texas, you have less to worry about than in just about any other state, nothing you say can help you. Anything you say can hurt you. Seems pretty simple to me.

Keep your mouth shut.

Well said Kerbouchard!

Kerbouchard wrote:

Purplehood wrote:On the topic of talking/not-talking to LEO's after a shoot...

Do you holster your weapon and wave your CHL over your head? In an LEO's mind would that help defuse the situation prior to the questioning?

I won't holster my sidearm until I am sure the situation is safe. If I had a reason to draw and fire, I probably won't feel like the situation is safe until the responding LEO show up....

Keep your mouth shut.

Kerbouchard wrote: I won't holster my sidearm until I am sure the situation is safe. If I had a reason to draw and fire, I probably won't feel like the situation is safe until the responding LEO show up. And I for one, will not be waving anything around when the LEO show up; Weapon, CHL or otherwise.

I guess it depends on the scenerio and the situation. But I figure most people wouldn't stop shooting until it was safe. If we shoot the target until there is no more threat we might as well holster it up.

I would generally concede your point, but I am not trained to diagnose the condition of a BG with bullet wounds. I also do not know if the BG is merely stunned or actually stopped. I do not know if the wounded BG has a weapon and in his dying breath wants revenge. I also may not know if the BG has a friend lurking behind some car looking for a chance to escape or to get revenge for his buddy.

It is, of course, completely dependent upon the unique situation at the time.

You do bring up an interesting point, and I'm glad you did. One of the things people generally say they will tell the 911 operator is that the BG is neutralized/stopped and that the situation is safe. Or they will want to help out by saying the BG was alone. Or that the BG is dead and there is nothing to worry about.

There is no way that within 1 minute of a shooting you could have any of that information. At worst, you could give a LEO a false sense of security(not likely, I seriously doubt they are going to take your word it), and at best, you just gave a lot of information that you really can't confirm in the first place.

There are simply too many variables involved to give a detailed statement, or to pronounce the situation 'safe' for all involved. I'll consider the BG 'stopped' when the coroner zips him up or the police take him away in handcuffs. As always, YMMV.

Oldgringo wrote:Folk,
Hope and pray that you never have to use that concealed handgun you're licensed to carry.

The Oldgringo said that...

For all of the aforesaid reasons..."Hope and pray that you never have to use that concealed handgun you're licensed to carry." Even if you're adjudged to have acted correctly, can you afford the legal bills...and there will be legal bills.

Oldgringo wrote:

Oldgringo wrote:Folk,
Hope and pray that you never have to use that concealed handgun you're licensed to carry.

The Oldgringo said that...

For all of the aforesaid reasons..."Hope and pray that you never have to use that concealed handgun you're licensed to carry." Even if you're adjudged to have acted correctly, can you afford the legal bills...and there will be legal bills.

thats the problem with the system i should not have to pay when i have done nothing wrong
that bugs me alot

Kerbouchard wrote: You do bring up an interesting point, and I'm glad you did. One of the things people generally say they will tell the 911 operator is that the BG is neutralized/stopped and that the situation is safe. Or they will want to help out by saying the BG was alone. Or that the BG is dead and there is nothing to worry about.

If a BG is down from your defensive fire, stating that "I see one assailant down and apparently in need of medical attention" is accurate and provides useful dispatch information without going into speculation.

Excaliber wrote:

Kerbouchard wrote: You do bring up an interesting point, and I'm glad you did. One of the things people generally say they will tell the 911 operator is that the BG is neutralized/stopped and that the situation is safe. Or they will want to help out by saying the BG was alone. Or that the BG is dead and there is nothing to worry about.

If a BG is down from your defensive fire, stating that "I see one assailant down and apparently in need of medical attention" is accurate and provides useful dispatch information without going into speculation.

Of course, you are correct. If you are among the .01% of the population that can give that, and only that, information, than by all means you should. How many other people do you think are going to follow up with "I didn't want to shoot him" or "Oh, my God, I can't believe I killed him"?

In my opinion, letting the dispatcher know that there has been a shooting is equivalent to telling them I need an ambulance. Perhaps a dispatcher can provide us more light upon the subject. I would assume an ambulance would be dispatched to just about any reported shooting.

thats the problem with the system i should not have to pay when i have done nothing wrong

The system ain't rigged for your benefit. It's for the good of attorneys on both sides. A never ending slot machine that always pays off somebody.

I believe it is a good idea (even if you are sure the BG is dead)) to ask dispatch to send medical help. It shows that your intent was to stop the BG not kill him.