TexasCHLforum.com

txinvestigator wrote:I just have this innate opposition to it, and I can't put my finger on it.

I have said in the past that I believe being open about your right to carry is an empowerment issue...

It is a personal issue, that has passion on both sides of the equation...

I would only hypothetically "assume" (which I hate doing, but for the sake of civil discussion) that the aversion some people have (and even in our community) that it could be contrived as some people doing it for the wrong reasons...

That may be a subtle reason some oppose this issue...

I'm not saying thats you "Tx" by any means...

Any one of us in our circle of friends here could physically meet, get into a heated argument almost to a critical point, and I can guarantee you that if we were carrying, clearing leather is the absolute last, if not the most absurd thing that could ever enter anyones mind at that point...

Because of the knowledge and maturity (sans the example of the vehement argument/dissagreement noted above) we have in regards to firearms/laws/carry issues...Whether we agree or dissagree on a subject...

You just can't equate that with everyone you know, so there may be an aversion to seeing someone you don't know, openly carrying a firearm...

But, I do pay attention to how things are going in other states that have this capability...And do not see a lot of problems within the carrying community, only a few problems with those who do not exercise the empowerment and right to carry a firearm for self-defence and other lawful purposes, and those who do...

Its just something that everyone on both sides of the track are going to have to get used to...

Because its coming...And if anything we had better have it screwed on right...Or problems will occur...

Most states who do have an open carry option, have had it all along...Texas would be one of the few, so far, to "modify" the "modern" law to allow its citizens the option...At least thats what I have seen so far...

If it does, I may not be the first one to wander out into my community doing so...I may wait till I see some other person do and then watch the reaction of those around us before I draw any conclusions to the positives and negatives if we do get this option...

I support the option to do so, I like the unknown (concealed) factor that others see about me the most...

If anything this is a barrier that needs to come down, and let those of us who do carry have the option...

I think it would do a lot in the long run to show the non-carrying public that there are more positives than negatives for the issue as a whole...

But I do not see how I could ever be considered anywhere, an expert (or even a student) in human nature or this issue...Right???

A lot of Great Observations in your post.

Wow -- talk about a lot of good discussion and debate on this subject! Let me say that I continue to be impressed with the way people on this forum can discuss a controversial issue, even disagree, and maintain a completely civil atmosphere!

Is there a place that we can go to look at stats that would tell us if the states where open carry is legal and common experience any significant amount of BGs taking a gun away from a law-abiding citizen?

As I posted before, I believe open carry is a right that should be recognized, and I support it on that basis alone. However, when it becomes legal here in Texas (I'm being optimistic), I'd like to look at stats from other states as I decide whether I want to open carry or not.

KinnyLee wrote:

kw5kw wrote: Scenario number two: Stopping at a gas station after dark, you get out of your car to fill the tank at a self-serve pump. You have your wallet out, and because we now have open carry—you’re gun is at 3 o’clock—clearly visible. Bad guys come out of the dark from around the corner of the “Stop-N-Rob�; see your gun, and decide that they’ll go where the pickin’s will be easier. You escape without even knowing it only because they (the bad guy’s) saw your weapon and changed their mind.

I like # 2 the best.

Russ

Or they see your weapon, devise a plan to disarm you, rob you and kill you with your own weapon. I don't see a problem with people open carry, but I do see a problem with people who are open carry and don't even understand about the 5 level or awareness, or even remotely have some sort of training on open carry. I guess it's more like a double edge sword.

You beat me to it. I can't remember the exact statistic, but something like 20-30% of all police officers shot while on duty were shot with their own firearm...

wrightcrew wrote:Wow -- talk about a lot of good discussion and debate on this subject! Let me say that I continue to be impressed with the way people on this forum can discuss a controversial issue, even disagree, and maintain a completely civil atmosphere!

Is there a place that we can go to look at stats that would tell us if the states where open carry is legal and common experience any significant amount of BGs taking a gun away from a law-abiding citizen?

As I posted before, I believe open carry is a right that should be recognized, and I support it on that basis alone. However, when it becomes legal here in Texas (I'm being optimistic), I'd like to look at stats from other states as I decide whether I want to open carry or not.

You can go check out the website called "Open Carry.org"

http://www.opencarry.org/

I think the map says it all, almost...

robert_de_niro wrote:

KinnyLee wrote:

kw5kw wrote: Scenario number two: Stopping at a gas station after dark, you get out of your car to fill the tank at a self-serve pump. You have your wallet out, and because we now have open carry—you’re gun is at 3 o’clock—clearly visible. Bad guys come out of the dark from around the corner of the “Stop-N-Rob�; see your gun, and decide that they’ll go where the pickin’s will be easier. You escape without even knowing it only because they (the bad guy’s) saw your weapon and changed their mind.

I like # 2 the best.

Russ

Or they see your weapon, devise a plan to disarm you, rob you and kill you with your own weapon. I don't see a problem with people open carry, but I do see a problem with people who are open carry and don't even understand about the 5 level or awareness, or even remotely have some sort of training on open carry. I guess it's more like a double edge sword.

You beat me to it. I can't remember the exact statistic, but something like 20-30% of all police officers shot while on duty were shot with their own firearm...

So the question is...

"Why?"

Do you think there is more or less risk (either way) between an armed citizen, or a commissioned law enforcement officer having their weapon taken away and used against them???

The law enforcement officers in this forum will tell you everything from their training, to on the job experiences which are extremely valuable to us in giving us practical information we can apply to our "mindset", when it comes to this issue...

Does that mean we are entitled to uphold and protect because we are armed? I don't think so, to a point...But that is not the number one priority...

So the misconception, and one I believe most will agree with is that just because "people" see your "gun", should they assume you are the protector in the immediate area "just because"...I know that sounds juvenile, but I believe its an accurate presumption by the public...

That presumption I believe will be a major hurdle that the non-carrying public will have to learn, thats not what "our" primary purpose in open carrying is...

So with open carry, there is a safe bet that there will not be a lot of secrets in what people think about you...If that is a big concern...

Anyway, I think this issue and the upcoming legislative action will cover all of these aspects...If we can have civil and constructive debate, and not allow emotions and Baby Slobbers to clog the process, this next state legistlative session should be another boon for our rights...

So if you have the ear of your state representative and senator...Whether you support the idea or not, you can do a lot to bend that ear from time to time starting soon...

big picture. people on this site are more or less gun nuts; people who practice, take care of their weapons, discuss scenarios, and/or otherwise prepare for the worst.

the problem is most people who carry guns don't. i've run across a whole lot of CHL people, and a lot of them carry a particular gun because it was cheap, or they saw it in a movie. someone who has a chl is more likely to be into guns, but a lot of people who have one aren't. reason being is it takes more effort to get a chl.

imagine open carry where you have people wearing guns who have 0 knowledge of how it works, just because they can. i'm not the type to say "the sky is falling". i know there are states that allow it, but i still don't see where it does anyone any good. i see someone wearing a gun around in regular clothes, i'm going to be very suspicious.

I would like to see open carry made legal, though for many of the reasons CHris gave above I think it should probably be licensed open carry: I think that either concealed or open a basic requirement for a firearms saftey course and a course on the legalities of lethal force. At least as a starter I would like to see the "C" taken out of "CHL"

As for would I carry open, yes, at least in a few limited cases: when I am on my way to the range would be one of them. Hiking in the woods would probably be another. In Walmart, etc ? Probably not

Dave B.

[/quote]I don't know, but the states where open carry has been legal forever don't seem to have a problem.


- Jim[/quote]

When reminded of this statement, this takes care of it for me. If all the bad things we have come up with happened in other states on a daily basis then they would not have open carry.
I want it.
LT

I am with LT.
I said it before and I will say it again. I WANT IT because I think it is my RIGHT! I would probably never open carry, but I want the option

I would. I don't think it is my right, I know it is. I am not smart enough to read a living, breathing interpreattion of a changing Constitution. It says what it means & means what it says.

I'm still on the fence as to whether I would open carry or not. I'm sure I would in certain cases and maybe in time I would more often than not.

The point is it is our right and should be allowed and let the choice to do so be our own, not some politicians.

I think the first step is legalized open carry for license holders. That should eliminate the concern of no training, etc.

There are times I would open carry, but for the most part I would not. I just think it would be nice to be allowed to.

In previous posts of mine I've said I would open carry in certain situations - and thinking a bit harder on this, I can't really pinpoint where or when.

I too think it should be a License to Carry a Weapon, or a License to Carry a Handgun - not unlicensed open carry. At a time when good people were obvious and BG's were too, an inalienable right to carry however you wanted wasn't probably a bad thing. But these days there are a lot of sick individuals or psychopaths that look just like respectable human beings, and I think expanding the CHL class to cover a day of practical training, would deter most of the "because I can" folks. I would have no problem with a 2 day intro class, and a full day renewal class, if most of it is practical training. Watching a video doesn't cut it, even for CHLs.

However if you make open carry, you change the dynamics of a situation. I think the requirement to retreat would need to go away at the same time for licensed individuals(as they should be the only ones carrying aside from LEOs).



Inherent constitutional rights are great, and I wholly support the constitution, but it was written in a time when you could take a sick man out back and kill him for the sake of community safety. Now they get to roam the streets, see "therapists" or at best, get 3 square meals and watch TV on my tax dollars.

Those arguing that open carry should remain illegal remind me of the "blood running in the streets!" arguments against concealed carry. It hasn't happened in any other state that has gone shall-issue, and it won't happen in states that go open carry.

Kevin