TexasCHLforum.com

baldeagle wrote:I would hope that all of you that frequent that area would be on and stay on red alert.

The first rule of survival in La Marque is to be somewhere else.

The second is to be on high alert at all times. People are not even safe in their homes with locked doors there.

- Jim

baldeagle wrote:I know some people might take offense to what I'm about to write, so I'm going to clarify before I write it. In no way do I mean to say that folks should not get CHLs and arm themselves nor do I think they should not defend themselves. Having said that, what concerns me about this incident is that it's not the first time. Robbers tend to escalate over time. Since these robbers have been shot at (legally and justifiably), the next ones may decide to shoot first and then hijack the vehicle. I would hope that all of you that frequent that area would be on and stay on red alert. If the next ones get too close, you may never get a chance to reach in the console (or even in your waistband) to defend yourself.

Stay alert, stay safe and be at the ready.

What baldeagle said. The later in the day, the greater the risk. Dark is the friend of the BG and his/her buds.

We are seldom more vulnerable than when we have a sack of 'stuff' in each hand and are BENT OVER and totally focused on trying to stow our sacks of 'stuff' in the vehicle so that it stays put when we leave.

If I have more than one bag, I always use a cart to carry my stuff from the store to my car.

This incident makes me think about what I would do in similar circumstances. I hope I would act as well as your wife did by defending herself and not injuring any bystanders. It is my prayer that this incident not scar you or your wife.

WildBill wrote:

Oldgringo wrote:We are seldom more vulnerable than when we have a sack of 'stuff' in each hand and are BENT OVER and totally focused on trying to stow our sacks of 'stuff' in the vehicle so that it stays put when we leave.

If I have more than one bag, I always use a cart to carry my stuff from the store to my car.

Really?

We usually have a half dozen or more sacks in the cart and we usually want to depart the premises with utmost dispatch. Our sacks remain in the cart until they are removed, usually two at a time, and stowed. I must confess my attention, at this point, has become focused on the task at hand rather than scoping out killers, thieves and sodomites in the parking lot. On a brighter note, we do shop in the daylight rather than between midnite and 0400 hours.

Unlike some, I am no longer smart nor immortal - I must do better.

Oldgringo wrote:

WildBill wrote:

Oldgringo wrote:We are seldom more vulnerable than when we have a sack of 'stuff' in each hand and are BENT OVER and totally focused on trying to stow our sacks of 'stuff' in the vehicle so that it stays put when we leave.

If I have more than one bag, I always use a cart to carry my stuff from the store to my car.

Really?

Yes, I do!

WildBill wrote:

Oldgringo wrote:

WildBill wrote:

Oldgringo wrote:We are seldom more vulnerable than when we have a sack of 'stuff' in each hand and are BENT OVER and totally focused on trying to stow our sacks of 'stuff' in the vehicle so that it stays put when we leave.

If I have more than one bag, I always use a cart to carry my stuff from the store to my car.

Really?

Yes, I do!

Good plan! I wish we could cut down to one bag...each.

Anytime we are loading the car, whether it's kids or groceries, one of us (myself or my wife) loads while the other "stands guard" and provides light support.

We haven't been picked by the criminals yet. But tomorrow is another day.

mctowalot wrote:Anytime we are loading the car, whether it's kids or groceries, one of us (myself or my wife) loads while the other "stands guard" and provides light support.

It sounds like you have a good plan.

gwashorn wrote:

baldeagle wrote:I know some people might take offense to what I'm about to write, so I'm going to clarify before I write it. In no way do I mean to say that folks should not get CHLs and arm themselves nor do I think they should not defend themselves. Having said that, what concerns me about this incident is that it's not the first time. Robbers tend to escalate over time. Since these robbers have been shot at (legally and justifiably), the next ones may decide to shoot first and then hijack the vehicle. I would hope that all of you that frequent that area would be on and stay on red alert. If the next ones get too close, you may never get a chance to reach in the console (or even in your waistband) to defend yourself.

Stay alert, stay safe and be at the ready.

To the last line and I made it BOLD, I have already talked to my wife exactly about this. In classes we take and here as well, it can not be said enough, be AWARE and that will help PREVENT you from having to go through this. Plus, and I hate to say this, as I am walking back out to my car, my hands are generally in a caution position. I take a look at who and what is moving around me before I open the doors to load and get in. If just by being openly aware of your surroundings makes the BG move on, then I have won the battle the best way I can.

Gary

Steady eye contact that conveys awareness and an absence of fear while the potential BG is still at a distance is often enough to get him to break off the approach and try again with someone who doesn't see him coming. He figures anybody who is alert to his presence and not visibly worried probably has reasons for that he'd rather not learn about in detail.

Excaliber wrote:

gwashorn wrote:

baldeagle wrote:I know some people might take offense to what I'm about to write, so I'm going to clarify before I write it. In no way do I mean to say that folks should not get CHLs and arm themselves nor do I think they should not defend themselves. Having said that, what concerns me about this incident is that it's not the first time. Robbers tend to escalate over time. Since these robbers have been shot at (legally and justifiably), the next ones may decide to shoot first and then hijack the vehicle. I would hope that all of you that frequent that area would be on and stay on red alert. If the next ones get too close, you may never get a chance to reach in the console (or even in your waistband) to defend yourself.

Stay alert, stay safe and be at the ready.

To the last line and I made it BOLD, I have already talked to my wife exactly about this. In classes we take and here as well, it can not be said enough, be AWARE and that will help PREVENT you from having to go through this. Plus, and I hate to say this, as I am walking back out to my car, my hands are generally in a caution position. I take a look at who and what is moving around me before I open the doors to load and get in. If just by being openly aware of your surroundings makes the BG move on, then I have won the battle the best way I can.

Gary

Steady eye contact that conveys awareness and an absence of fear while the potential BG is still at a distance is often enough to get him to break off the approach and try again with someone who doesn't see him coming. He figures anybody who is alert to his presence and not visibly worried probably has reasons for that he'd rather not learn about in detail.

Excaliber I have always respected your posts and the links you provide. I was a paratrooper in the USA for 8 years, 7 & 1/2 overseas. I don't know, it wasn't instructed to us but we always had the look of someone that would "rip your throat out" at any time, don't know if it was a bit of aragance because we knew we were a bit more, don't know how to say it, but we were above average lets say. The more time I have spent as a civilian I have tried to portray more of the gray man concept but always being aware of what was happening around me.

By grayman I mean not standing out more than your average Joe, it has very hard for me to get rid of the head swivel as to know what was going on 360* around me. After reading this I think I need to keep my "situational awareness" looking face on all the time.

I would be interested in your thoughts on this...
Jim

Grammy wrote:

Excaliber wrote:

gwashorn wrote:

baldeagle wrote:I know some people might take offense to what I'm about to write, so I'm going to clarify before I write it. In no way do I mean to say that folks should not get CHLs and arm themselves nor do I think they should not defend themselves. Having said that, what concerns me about this incident is that it's not the first time. Robbers tend to escalate over time. Since these robbers have been shot at (legally and justifiably), the next ones may decide to shoot first and then hijack the vehicle. I would hope that all of you that frequent that area would be on and stay on red alert. If the next ones get too close, you may never get a chance to reach in the console (or even in your waistband) to defend yourself.

Stay alert, stay safe and be at the ready.

To the last line and I made it BOLD, I have already talked to my wife exactly about this. In classes we take and here as well, it can not be said enough, be AWARE and that will help PREVENT you from having to go through this. Plus, and I hate to say this, as I am walking back out to my car, my hands are generally in a caution position. I take a look at who and what is moving around me before I open the doors to load and get in. If just by being openly aware of your surroundings makes the BG move on, then I have won the battle the best way I can.

Gary

Steady eye contact that conveys awareness and an absence of fear while the potential BG is still at a distance is often enough to get him to break off the approach and try again with someone who doesn't see him coming. He figures anybody who is alert to his presence and not visibly worried probably has reasons for that he'd rather not learn about in detail.

Excaliber I have always respected your posts and the links you provide. I was a paratrooper in the USA for 8 years, 7 & 1/2 overseas. I don't know, it wasn't instructed to us but we always had the look of someone that would "rip your throat out" at any time, don't know if it was a bit of aragance because we knew we were a bit more, don't know how to say it, but we were above average lets say. The more time I have spent as a civilian I have tried to portray more of the gray man concept but always being aware of what was happening around me.

By grayman I mean not standing out more than your average Joe, it has very hard for me to get rid of the head swivel as to know what was going on 360* around me. After reading this I think I need to keep my "situational awareness" looking face on all the time.

I would be interested in your thoughts on this...
Jim

Jim,

I understand exactly what you're saying. It took me over 2 years to "tone down" and "civilianize" after I retired, and I tried to recognize the changes so I could make the ones I wanted intelligently.

The "look" you describe has several components. Among them are:

1. A fit build

2. The strong,balanced posture and fluid movement that a trained fighter unconsciously exhibits

3. The mental preparedness to "flip the switch" in a heartbeat and respond to a threat with all out relentless counterattack without having to go through several slow escalation steps. A person who has experience with violence readily recognizes this.

4. A "radar" alertness that constantly checks the area threats could come from. This expands and contracts with the circumstances, but it's definitely there and usually picks up on someone with ill intent when he just begins to show interest or approach. It's not just visual - it's more like a continuous "instinct" sweep to see if any threatening vibes are present. (Folks who've spent a lot of time in dangerous environments will understand what I'm trying to describe here. Most others will probably think I've lost my mind.)

5. A constantly moving gaze that is always alert and scanning the environment. It stops and locks onto potential threats with a hard stare that contains no fear. I describe it as "missile lock" or a "target acquisition stare" at something or someone that may need to be engaged with violence.

There are other cues too - polished shoes (a hard to break military or paramilitary habit, but an unusual characteristic among civilians), a tactical knife clipped in the pocket, a sturdy belt, high quality precision eyewear, etc. that an alert observer may pick up on.

Most suburbanites won't notice, but people with these characteristics put off vibes that tingle the "spidey sense" of someone attuned to that - and bad guys have to be because their survival depends on consistently picking "good" (nonresistive) victims. There are probably more things we could identify if we sat down and kicked it around over a beer, but the overall effect is enough to get most bad guys to leave these kinds of folks alone.

I wouldn't give up the swivel for the sake of being more "gray." In fact, I consciously force myself to do the swivel check anytime I get out of a car or leave a building. A slightly less complete "blending in" approach can stand you in good stead by preventing unpleasant surprises without giving our soccer moms the feeling they should move to the other side of the street when you're around.

The "face" can be consciously managed to be either on or off. In civilian life, it's advantageous to be able to go about with a relaxed and alert face, which most folks interpret as generally friendly and interesting, while keeping the "switch" to the "game face" primed and ready to go when needed. That change alone is enough to convince a lot of the rats that they've made a serious target selection error and send them scurrying for cover because they accurately sense what's behind it.

For the folks who haven't spent time around either highly trained "sheep dogs" or violent street criminals, think about what's said here in terms of predator / prey interactions. Life is much easier if street predators don't see you as prey. If they do, there are 4 ways things can go:

1. If you see trouble coming in time, you may be able to avoid / evade / escape

2. You can do something to convince the hungry predator you're a predator too and he shouldn't start the game because the encounter won't be easy or fun. Many of the most effective things are nonverbal, as outlined above. However, someone who doesn't have the heart of a warrior won't be able to fake those parts, and if they try, they'll draw bad guys in like bees to honey.

3. You can allow the encounter to develop and fight all out to come through as the dominant predator. This isn't easy or fun, and the outcome is far from assured. There are no second place winners, but there can be ties for last where both combatants are seriously injured or killed.

4. You can allow the encounter to develop, submit, and become food. There are a whole range of possible outcomes to the last option, from simply being relieved of your wallet to being killed for the thrill.

I notice (ex)military and (ex)law enforcement from a mile away. Straight-backed, shoulders squared, squared-off buzz cuts, neatly pressed and tucked clothes, chests out, arms bent and stiff, sport-shaped Oakleys, emotionless affects, warm and alive eyes which don't match the blank faces...

To be blunt, if they'd grow their hair out, let their arms swing, stop puffing out their chests, smile once in a while, and wear shirts that didn't have to tuck in, they'd blend in a whole lot easier than any other modifications they're going to make to minor things like looking around a parking lot while they're walking through it. That's just my two cents.

Why should they blend in? They have served the country and are comfortable with their habits.

Anyone who has met me knows that I wouldn't blend in anywhere except maybe Burning Man or a Willie Nelson concert. I'm still here.

- Jim

Hoi Polloi wrote:I notice (ex)military and (ex)law enforcement from a mile away. Straight-backed, shoulders squared, squared-off buzz cuts, neatly pressed and tucked clothes, chests out, arms bent and stiff, sport-shaped Oakleys, emotionless affects, warm and alive eyes which don't match the blank faces...

Well, at least until we get old, fat and bald.