TexasCHLforum.com

Keith B wrote:

Dave2 wrote:HotLeadSolutions, did your niece happen to get the guy's name? I'll cheerfully call, file a complaint, and inform them that I'll never spend another cent there until he's fired and they pay for her counseling.

Unless you are directly involved in an event, are an immediate family member, or their lawyer, you are usually better to keep from getting involved in these types of issues. The reason being, this is all hearsay on the forum. Not that it is not factual, but when the complaint people want to follow up with you, all you will be able to say is 'Well, this guy on the Internet said....'. That won't buy any credibility with the company, and actually could hurt any potential litigation that may stem from this incident.

So, discuss the scenario here with the names changed to protect the folks, but best let those involved directly deal with it.

I think I was coming to the same conclusion.

Oldgringo wrote: What's the liklihood of your 'back shot' passing through the "guy" and hitting the cashier or some other bystander? What if the cashier pulled a gun, shot the perceived threat and 2-3 people standing in line?

A CHL is not a BATMAN license.

Are you saying that a cashier pulling a gun a shooting a robber is going "Batman?"

I understand that as CHLs we might not want to go getting involved in situations with unrelated 3rd parties when we're not under direct threat, but if I'm standing behind a guy robbing the cashier, I consider myself directly involved in that situation, not being Batman. I would likely take the shot, as long as I thought I could do so without harming innocent persons.

speedsix wrote: ...and my last word on this thread, lest I be thought contentious, is that a man who disagrees with another needs to voice his opinion in an open forum without resorting to cheap shots and ridicule...you may disagree...that's fine...but there's nothing contributed by smart-alec, mean-spirited sniping when someone's asking sincere questions or discussing a situation rationally...if we're going to stomp them down...why should they come here? Why should they ask and subject themselves to ridicule...we can be better than that...while being in total disagreement with what's said...

I was going to post something reasonably close to what you've already said.

Come on guys are we Adults or six year old kids putting each other down?

BrianSW99 wrote:

Oldgringo wrote: What's the liklihood of your 'back shot' passing through the "guy" and hitting the cashier or some other bystander? What if the cashier pulled a gun, shot the perceived threat and 2-3 people standing in line?

A CHL is not a BATMAN license.

Are you saying that a cashier pulling a gun a shooting a robber is going "Batman?"

I understand that as CHLs we might not want to go getting involved in situations with unrelated 3rd parties when we're not under direct threat, but if I'm standing behind a guy robbing the cashier, I consider myself directly involved in that situation, not being Batman. I would likely take the shot, as long as I thought I could do so without harming innocent persons.

i'll agree with you there, if you're standing in line behind someone who's attempting to rob a cashier while claiming to have a gun in their pocket, i'd consider that person to be a direct threat to my own well-being, not just a threat to the cashier. if the guy really did have a gun, who's to say he wouldn't turn around and pump a couple rounds into you out of the fear that you might attack him while his back is turned to you?

whether the guy really had a gun in his pocket is irrelevant, he gave the impression that he did have a gun (he even stated as much), and verbally expressed his intent to rob the cashier. in this case he may have not really intended to rob her, but if a person says they're going to do something, i'm not in the business of determining whether he's playing a prank or whether he's got a pistol in his pocket that, in a split second, he can pull out and unload a couple rounds into the cashier if she doesn't comply with his demands.

depending on the surrounding circumstances, i'm not going to come charging from the back of the store if i see a robbery in progress, but if the guy is standing right in front of me and threatens the life of the cashier and i can safely stop him with the use of force, i wouldn't hesitate to do so. and when i say "safely", i mean that i had assessed my surroundings and determined that the risk of a stray round (or even a pass-through) hitting an innocent bystander was close to none.

I really am not supprised anymore of all the "I'd have shot him" comments. Why do most people seem so eager to take a life? I am all for self defense, hence the reason that I CCW, but I don't salivate thinking about the time when I get to shoot someone. To me all this attitude does is give the anti gun crowd talking points.

I have said before that it would have to be a hellish event for me to act in the protection of a 3rd party. There are so many variables involved that I don't even want to think about. The best is to be a good witness and retreat to a position of safety. Most robberies end without violence and even if the employee gets hurt, they can file for workers comp against the company. I made the decision to carry so that I can have a tool at my disposal to help me in the event that my life was in danger. If I can get to safety without using my gun, then that's the best choice.

I am not a police officer and it is not my job to ensure the safety of everyone around me just because I have a gun.

The OP didn't say anything about Office Depot, so not sure where that came from. The story itself has so many empty holes in it. Was this in fact the LP person? Was he acting on his own or is this company policy? If in fact he did this and it really was LP then he should at a min be fired. If the female was really traumatized by the incident, then a police report should be filed and a civil lawsuit filed if she is still being affected.

I worked LP for a department store for 4 years back in my younger days and I can tell you that this isn't something that should be occuring.

magillapd wrote:I am not a police officer and it is not my job to ensure the safety of everyone around me just because I have a gun.

The police don't have a requirement to do that either.

magillapd wrote:The OP didn't say anything about Office Depot, so not sure where that came from.

The O-OP before it was edited.

magillapd wrote:The story itself has so many empty holes in it. Was this in fact the LP person? Was he acting on his own or is this company policy? If in fact he did this and it really was LP then he should at a min be fired. If the female was really traumatized by the incident, then a police report should be filed and a civil lawsuit filed if she is still being affected.

HotLeadSolutions posted at least one followup verifying that the... um... "jerk" doesn't seem sufficient... anyway, he does work for LP at the company in question. I doubt it's company policy, and probably for the very reasons specified in this thread.

magillapd wrote:I really am not supprised anymore of all the "I'd have shot him" comments. Why do most people seem so eager to take a life? I am all for self defense, hence the reason that I CCW, but I don't salivate thinking about the time when I get to shoot someone. To me all this attitude does is give the anti gun crowd talking points.

I know I'm not salivating thinking about shooting someone, and I don't think anyone else here is either, but at what point would you decide to draw and take the shot? If you wait for the gun to be pointed at you, it's too late. If you turn and run, you might get shot in the back. You're right, there are many variables, but I'm not sure I personally want to rely on the robbers good intentions not to shoot me. There are too many instances of robbers shooting their victims without provocation to be comfortable with taking that chance.

magillapd wrote:The OP didn't say anything about Office Depot, so not sure where that came from. The story itself has so many empty holes in it. Was this in fact the LP person? Was he acting on his own or is this company policy? If in fact he did this and it really was LP then he should at a min be fired. If the female was really traumatized by the incident, then a police report should be filed and a civil lawsuit filed if she is still being affected.

The original post was edited to remove personally identifiable information.

magillapd wrote: I am not a police officer and it is not my job to ensure the safety of everyone around me just because I have a gun.

you don't have to be a law enforcement officer to help those in need. if a man standing in front of me was claiming to have a gun inside his shirt, telling a young innocent woman that he was robbing her and saying things like "don't make me hurt you", i'd feel like a complete coward if i ran and hid when i could have helped and possibly saved her life. just because it isn't my "job" doesn't mean i don't have a legal right to stop the attacker given the circumstances we're discussing in this case. if i ran to safety, leaving this young woman to fend for herself against an armed attacker, it would haunt me 'til the day i die if the bad guy were to decide to use the gun on her.

magillapd wrote:The best is to be a good witness and retreat to a position of safety. Most robberies end without violence and even if the employee gets hurt, they can file for workers comp against the company.

and some robberies end with innocent people being murdered in cold blood. i can't find the thread but there was a robbery on New Year's Eve in Houston where 2 or 3 armed men came into a convenience store and killed an innocent customer for no good reason at all. if you were in the situation being discussed, and an admittedly armed robber were in front of you, are you certain that he won't turn around and pump you full of lead before resuming the robbery? it's been done countless times before and it'll happen again. like a previous poster said, if you wait for the barrel to be pointing at you, it's too late.

rmr1923 wrote:

magillapd wrote: I am not a police officer and it is not my job to ensure the safety of everyone around me just because I have a gun.

you don't have to be a law enforcement officer to help those in need. if a man standing in front of me was claiming to have a gun inside his shirt, telling a young innocent woman that he was robbing her and saying things like "don't make me hurt you", i'd feel like a complete coward if i ran and hid when i could have helped and possibly saved her life. just because it isn't my "job" doesn't mean i don't have a legal right to stop the attacker given the circumstances we're discussing in this case. if i ran to safety, leaving this young woman to fend for herself against an armed attacker, it would haunt me 'til the day i die if the bad guy were to decide to use the gun on her.

magillapd wrote:The best is to be a good witness and retreat to a position of safety. Most robberies end without violence and even if the employee gets hurt, they can file for workers comp against the company.

and some robberies end with innocent people being murdered in cold blood. i can't find the thread but there was a robbery on New Year's Eve in Houston where 2 or 3 armed men came into a convenience store and killed an innocent customer for no good reason at all. if you were in the situation being discussed, and an admittedly armed robber were in front of you, are you certain that he won't turn around and pump you full of lead before resuming the robbery? it's been done countless times before and it'll happen again. like a previous poster said, if you wait for the barrel to be pointing at you, it's too late.

If other people get killed because of the actions of an armed criminal, that is not my problem nor my responsibility to stop. The family of the clerk can sue the store for not providing security or for taking away her own rights to self defense. If I am able to get away, I will, and will be calling 911 to get help started.

speaking in the big picture of things, if I was in line with the person, and I felt that MY life was in danger, then I would act in whatever manner I felt at that moment was in my best interest. If that means that I can safely back away and leave, then so be it. If that means that I have to put a bullet in the back of robbers head, then so be it. But I would be doing it under the justification of self defense of myself, not a 3rd party.

I did not get my CHL to protect the sheep of our society, I got it to protect myself and my family to the fullest extent the law allows.

I do not have the money to defend myself in court over a 3rd party defense.

And no, there is no legal right. The law does not FORCE me to act in the defense of others.

magillapd wrote:

rmr1923 wrote:

magillapd wrote: I am not a police officer and it is not my job to ensure the safety of everyone around me just because I have a gun.

you don't have to be a law enforcement officer to help those in need. if a man standing in front of me was claiming to have a gun inside his shirt, telling a young innocent woman that he was robbing her and saying things like "don't make me hurt you", i'd feel like a complete coward if i ran and hid when i could have helped and possibly saved her life. just because it isn't my "job" doesn't mean i don't have a legal right to stop the attacker given the circumstances we're discussing in this case. if i ran to safety, leaving this young woman to fend for herself against an armed attacker, it would haunt me 'til the day i die if the bad guy were to decide to use the gun on her.

magillapd wrote:The best is to be a good witness and retreat to a position of safety. Most robberies end without violence and even if the employee gets hurt, they can file for workers comp against the company.

and some robberies end with innocent people being murdered in cold blood. i can't find the thread but there was a robbery on New Year's Eve in Houston where 2 or 3 armed men came into a convenience store and killed an innocent customer for no good reason at all. if you were in the situation being discussed, and an admittedly armed robber were in front of you, are you certain that he won't turn around and pump you full of lead before resuming the robbery? it's been done countless times before and it'll happen again. like a previous poster said, if you wait for the barrel to be pointing at you, it's too late.

If other people get killed because of the actions of an armed criminal, that is not my problem nor my responsibility to stop. The family of the clerk can sue the store for not providing security or for taking away her own rights to self defense. If I am able to get away, I will, and will be calling 911 to get help started.

speaking in the big picture of things, if I was in line with the person, and I felt that MY life was in danger, then I would act in whatever manner I felt at that moment was in my best interest. If that means that I can safely back away and leave, then so be it. If that means that I have to put a bullet in the back of robbers head, then so be it. But I would be doing it under the justification of self defense of myself, not a 3rd party.

I did not get my CHL to protect the sheep of our society, I got it to protect myself and my family to the fullest extent the law allows.

I do not have the money to defend myself in court over a 3rd party defense.

And no, there is no legal right. The law does not FORCE me to act in the defense of others.

Would you ike some cheese?

magillapd wrote: I did not get my CHL to protect the sheep of our society,

That was a pretty crappy thing to say there, hotshot.

I do not have the money to defend myself in court over a 3rd party defense.

Oh, but wait, so you are one of these "sheep" then?

HotLeadSolutions wrote: Would you ike some cheese?

Sure, yellow american would be fine. Oh, some turkey and ham on white bread. You don't have to worry about trimming the crust off, that's the best part!

nyj wrote:

magillapd wrote: I did not get my CHL to protect the sheep of our society,

That was a pretty crappy thing to say there, hotshot.

I do not have the money to defend myself in court over a 3rd party defense.

Oh, but wait, so you are one of these "sheep" then?

Not even worth a reply, oh wait, this is a reply...my bad

is it the OD on Randol Mill? if so that guy is an idiot