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If this were to ever happen to me I'd be scared witless. I can normally talk myself out of just about anything, but I've never had a gun or multiple guns pointed at me. I am prepared, I think, for bad guys, but police officers? IDK!!!

Having two or more officers giving me clear conflicting orders, while pointing guns at me fingers on the triggers, terrifies me just like the wrong address no knock warrant. One tells me to get on the ground and the other tells me that if I move he'll kill me. Whoa!!! It's my overall desire to comply with them that will paralyze me in this situation. If I am able to remain calm and ask which order I should comply with will probably only make one or more of them madder thinking that I'm mocking them.

Sgt.Michael Dougherty aiming a handgun at him.
Reckless endangerment with a firearm.

The cop told him to get on his knees. “obey what I'm saying."
Police oppression with the threat of violence.

philip964 wrote:When a police officer tells you to get on your knees, you get on your knees.

In Las Vegas this guy would have been dead already and the recorder would have been missing.

So does this guy walk around with a sound recorder on all the time?. Seems odd or was he expecting or wanting trouble.

He's had trouble more than once for following the laws of the state. He was doing nothing illegal, and more than once was occosted
by the police. I'd say that warrants carrying a recorder with you in case it ever happens again. After all, without a recording it's his
word against theirs.

clarionite wrote:

philip964 wrote:When a police officer tells you to get on your knees, you get on your knees.

In Las Vegas this guy would have been dead already and the recorder would have been missing.

So does this guy walk around with a sound recorder on all the time?. Seems odd or was he expecting or wanting trouble.

He's had trouble more than once for following the laws of the state. He was doing nothing illegal, and more than once was occosted
by the police. I'd say that warrants carrying a recorder with you in case it ever happens again. After all, without a recording it's his
word against theirs.

Can you quote your source please?

Keith B wrote:

clarionite wrote:

philip964 wrote:When a police officer tells you to get on your knees, you get on your knees.

In Las Vegas this guy would have been dead already and the recorder would have been missing.

So does this guy walk around with a sound recorder on all the time?. Seems odd or was he expecting or wanting trouble.

He's had trouble more than once for following the laws of the state. He was doing nothing illegal, and more than once was occosted
by the police. I'd say that warrants carrying a recorder with you in case it ever happens again. After all, without a recording it's his
word against theirs.

Can you quote your source please?

I'd be more than happy to.

http://m.philly.com/phillycom/db_/conte ... &full=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think this guy handled himself like he had a chip on his shoulder. And I think we can find a better poster child for our causes. But I don't think I'd have gone out without a recorder if I were in his situation, and I don't think I would have stopped doing something I was legally licensed to do just because there were some officers who didn't know the law.

Edited: To correct the URL

Thanks. Found that in the other discussion thread also after I posted my request.

Keith B wrote:

tbrown wrote:

couzin wrote:carrying an already recording tape recorder indicates he wanted a confrontation

Does that mean cops with dash cans want a confrontation? What about banks with security cameras?

No, but they end up with confrontations they don't want way more often than John Q. Public, and those help show that they were right or wrong. I agree this guy was looking for someone to challenge him. He got it, but he is lucky he wasn't legally dead by not following orders, even though really unwarranted. IMO, this guy's recording will be incriminating to him as well, so he will end up on the short end of the stick in court.

You might be surprised to find that this guy is a hero like Rosa Parks and other unsung heroes like her who are continuing the fight against unjust "orders". If everyone follows unjust police "orders" then we are living in a Nazi police state. Sadly, gone are the days when most police are voted into office so that they know that they're public servants with a constituent. Now, police, especially the young ones are just a bunch of Nazi mall ninjas with a chip on their shoulder and an "us against the world" attitude.

philip964 wrote:In Las Vegas this guy would have been dead already and the recorder would have been missing.

That's why you use a recorder disguised as something else. You can get video recorders on eBay for less than $20 disguised as sunglasses, pens, watches, a shirt button, etc. With modern technology, nobody wears a "wire" anymore. A color video recorder with audio could be as small as a shirt button with a micro SD card in it. I carry a video recorder everywhere I go. I've been doing it for a short time and it's already saved me from a quota deadline anxious cop's bad ticket. Texas is a "one party recording state" so all recordings are legal as long as you're in the recording too (just say something). One cop tried to write me a ticket for running a red light when it was clearly green. The recorder saved me from that ticket. I'm just mad that the cop was not reprimanded nor fired. They said that it was an "honest" mistake. I think that it was anything but "honest". The city of Dallas is hurting for cash because of falling property values and property tax revenues. They're trying to make up that shortfall by writing bum tickets. They wrote tickets for all the cars parked on my block because they were parked on the wrong side of the street. Some were parked facing one way and others were parked facing the other way. So, the tickets should only be written for half the cars, since it's a one way street. However, the officer wrote tickets for ALL the cars parked in either direction! I argued that in court and "won". I say "won", because the ticket was for $40 but if you had to take time off from work that you got paid more than $40 to do, then you've actually "lost". However, if we don't take the time to fight government injustice, then we will all be living in a Nazi police state. That's why I forfeited more than $40 to fight a $40 ticket. Just remember this, if you have to shoot someone to defend yourself, the other party will always lie and say that it was an unprovoked attack from you. Please don't have any Hollywood fantasies that the other guy will die and "dead men tell no tales" because EVERY handgun wound victim that entered my E.R. from an ambulance lived through getting shot. You will need that video evidence to defend yourself in court.

BTW, what if you had to defend yourself or a fellow law-abiding citizen from a rogue cop? Then you'll REALLY need that video evidence.

Cops robbing Wal-Mart caught on camera: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmQW6xLECUU
What if it was YOU who witnessed the cops robbing instead of NBC news? You think those cops are gonna let you live to tell this tale? What if they shot you to shut you up and you shot back? Without video evidence, who do you think they're going to believe?

Cops stealing a safe from a convenience store: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7Kc1sBntXI

Cops doing a home invasion robbery on a little old lady: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-taU9d26wT4

Modern police departments aren't about hiring qualified officers. They're about meeting quotas such as ticket revenue quotas, multicultural officer quotas, and arrest quotas. Never mind that the tickets aren't legit, the officers aren't qualified, and the arrests are on bogus trumped up gun charges from home invasion robberies of senior citizens in their own homes. Hey, if the department met all their quotas, then they're doing a "good" job fighting "crime" (sig heil!). I used to live in a small town and the sheriff (& his deputies) was a wonderful guy who's been office for years that we voted into office. Dallas is definitely NOT a small town.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/05 ... latestnews" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

With a shocking altercation between Philadelphia police and a 25-year-old IT worker putting the spotlight back on open-carry gun laws, local authorities are warning gun owners that they will be "inconvenienced" if they carry unconcealed handguns in the city.

Lt. Raymond Evers, a spokesman for the city police, told FoxNews.com that gun owners who open carry, which is legal in the city, may be asked to lay on the ground until officers feel safe while they check permits.

In TX LEO can disarm a CHLer and can be inconvenieced by being ordered to raise his hands got on his knees or hit the ground in normal course of justifed stop. Just comply and have a good day.

Beiruty wrote:In TX LEO can disarm a CHLer and can be inconvenieced by being ordered to raise his hands got on his knees or hit the ground in normal course of justifed stop. Just comply and have a good day.

Would you not object if this was announced as policy with the intent to discourage concealed carry?

That is what is being done by Philadelphia.

Maybe phily police is going overboard and there is no need to for drawn guns or pointed ones in your face. Policy should be pro citizen.

When its someone else being ordered to get on his knees during a routine stop it’s called inconvenient. When it you its humiliating. Nevertheless, surrender to the Police state indoctrination and have a nice day.

Mike1951 wrote:

Beiruty wrote:In TX LEO can disarm a CHLer and can be inconvenieced by being ordered to raise his hands got on his knees or hit the ground in normal course of justifed stop. Just comply and have a good day.

Would you not object if this was announced as policy with the intent to discourage concealed carry?

No, I like winning harassment lawsuits. After a few of them, I'll probably have enough $$ saved up to spend the rest of my life doing volunteer work.

Tongue-somewhat-in-cheek because I don't like having guns pointed at me.

handog wrote:When its someone else being ordered to get on his knees during a routine stop it’s called inconvenient. When it you its humiliating. Nevertheless, surrender to the Police state indoctrination and have a nice day.

I know, but... Sometimes in life you have to choose the lesser of two evils. Being humiliated vs having a bullet suddenly introduced into your body... Drug-crazed robbers and adrenaline-pumped LEO's are both dangerous when they have their firearms pointed at you.

sugar land dave wrote:

handog wrote:When its someone else being ordered to get on his knees during a routine stop it’s called inconvenient. When it you its humiliating. Nevertheless, surrender to the Police state indoctrination and have a nice day.

I know, but... Sometimes in life you have to choose the lesser of two evils. Being humiliated vs having a bullet suddenly introduced into your body... Drug-crazed robbers and adrenaline-pumped LEO's are both dangerous when they have their firearms pointed at you.

Dave, as a recent member, you might not be aware that handog has gained a unique perspective on this. He may be the only CHL arrested for 'printing' and he faced a large, aggressive police response.

Consequently, I hold his opinion above all others on this subject.