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The royalties on devices already sold are probably included in the damages award. I haven't seen what the agreement is for the future. It could be anything from royalties being paid to not being allowed to ship devices that violate the patents. They may have done a patent use swap. The details will eventually make it into the news.

I have a 13" MacBook Pro that I love. I will never go back to PC

snatchel wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:Related topic:

Apple Wins $1 Billion as Jury Finds Samsung Violated Patents
http://www.cnbc.com/id/48783982

Apple scored a sweeping legal victory over Samsung Electronics on Friday as a U.S. jury found the Korean company had copied critical features of the hugely popular iPhone and iPad and awarded the U.S. company $1.05 billion in damages.

As for the countersuit, the jury found Apple did not violate any of Samsung's wireless standards or feature patents.

So what next? Aside from the jury award, will Samsung have to pay a royalty to Apple for devices sold to date and going forward?

I saw this update on my .. iPhone .. last night. I'm curious about that too.

Couldn't have happened to a better company (Samsung, that is...)

sjfcontrol wrote:

snatchel wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:Related topic:

Apple Wins $1 Billion as Jury Finds Samsung Violated Patents
http://www.cnbc.com/id/48783982

Apple scored a sweeping legal victory over Samsung Electronics on Friday as a U.S. jury found the Korean company had copied critical features of the hugely popular iPhone and iPad and awarded the U.S. company $1.05 billion in damages.

As for the countersuit, the jury found Apple did not violate any of Samsung's wireless standards or feature patents.

So what next? Aside from the jury award, will Samsung have to pay a royalty to Apple for devices sold to date and going forward?

I saw this update on my .. iPhone .. last night. I'm curious about that too.

Couldn't have happened to a better company (Samsung, that is...)

Samsung's Statement:

Today's verdict should not be viewed as a win for Apple, but as a loss for the American consumer. It will lead to fewer choices, less innovation, and potentially higher prices. It is unfortunate that patent law can be manipulated to give one company a monopoly over rectangles with rounded corners, or technology that is being improved every day by Samsung and other companies. Consumers have the right to choices, and they know what they are buying when they purchase Samsung products. This is not the final word in this case or in battles being waged in courts and tribunals around the world, some of which have already rejected many of Apple's claims. Samsung will continue to innovate and offer choices for the consumer.

Thomas wrote:Samsung's Statement:

Today's verdict should not be viewed as a win for Apple, but as a loss for the American consumer. It will lead to fewer choices, less innovation, and potentially higher prices. It is unfortunate that patent law can be manipulated to give one company a monopoly over rectangles with rounded corners, or technology that is being improved every day by Samsung and other companies. Consumers have the right to choices, and they know what they are buying when they purchase Samsung products. This is not the final word in this case or in battles being waged in courts and tribunals around the world, some of which have already rejected many of Apple's claims. Samsung will continue to innovate and offer choices for the consumer.

What else did you expect them to say? Of course they want to make it look like it's the consumer who will lose. They lost in a court of law and so now want to try to win in the court of public opinion. But the fact is that Samsung infringed on patents that Apple already had. Tech companies like Samsung and Apple are always stepping on each other's toes. This is to be expected in the fast changing world of technology (especially mobile technology). Lawsuits like this are just a way to try to keep one step ahead of their competitors.

The part about Samsung's statement that is funny though is the "fewer choices, less innovation, and potentially higher prices" portion. Apple keeps their price points for new products at the same level as the older models and drops the price on the older versions. That's why you can now get an iPhone 4 for $99 whereas the iPhone 4S starts at $199 (which was the original price point for the iPhone 3G, 3GS, and 4).

Apple has never interfered with a competitor because, in their corporate philosophy (and I know this for a fact as I used to work for Apple), they have no competitors. Companies like Motorola, Samsung, LG, etc are all trying to out-do each other on device specs and making the cheapest devices possible. But Apple truly does care about the user experience first, last, and always.

I've worked for both Microsoft and Apple (at different times in my tech career, of course). It truly is a while different world view at Apple. I've never seen anything like it before. And, as a business owner myself, I try to use the same philosophies in my business. And it's working.

RottenApple wrote:

Thomas wrote:Samsung's Statement:

Today's verdict should not be viewed as a win for Apple, but as a loss for the American consumer. It will lead to fewer choices, less innovation, and potentially higher prices. It is unfortunate that patent law can be manipulated to give one company a monopoly over rectangles with rounded corners, or technology that is being improved every day by Samsung and other companies. Consumers have the right to choices, and they know what they are buying when they purchase Samsung products. This is not the final word in this case or in battles being waged in courts and tribunals around the world, some of which have already rejected many of Apple's claims. Samsung will continue to innovate and offer choices for the consumer.

What else did you expect them to say? Of course they want to make it look like it's the consumer who will lose. They lost in a court of law and so now want to try to win in the court of public opinion. But the fact is that Samsung infringed on patents that Apple already had. Tech companies like Samsung and Apple are always stepping on each other's toes. This is to be expected in the fast changing world of technology (especially mobile technology). Lawsuits like this are just a way to try to keep one step ahead of their competitors.

The part about Samsung's statement that is funny though is the "fewer choices, less innovation, and potentially higher prices" portion. Apple keeps their price points for new products at the same level as the older models and drops the price on the older versions. That's why you can now get an iPhone 4 for $99 whereas the iPhone 4S starts at $199 (which was the original price point for the iPhone 3G, 3GS, and 4).

Apple has never interfered with a competitor because, in their corporate philosophy (and I know this for a fact as I used to work for Apple), they have no competitors. Companies like Motorola, Samsung, LG, etc are all trying to out-do each other on device specs and making the cheapest devices possible. But Apple truly does care about the user experience first, last, and always.

I've worked for both Microsoft and Apple (at different times in my tech career, of course). It truly is a while different world view at Apple. I've never seen anything like it before. And, as a business owner myself, I try to use the same philosophies in my business. And it's working.

When I have the energy tomorrow, maybe I'll go line by line to refute all of that. Until then, here's this:

Jury in Apple v. Samsung Goofed, Damages Reduced -- Uh Oh. What's Wrong With this Picture? ~pj Updated 3Xs
http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?stor ... 2510525390

RottenApple wrote:

Thomas wrote:Samsung's Statement:

Today's verdict should not be viewed as a win for Apple, but as a loss for the American consumer. It will lead to fewer choices, less innovation, and potentially higher prices. It is unfortunate that patent law can be manipulated to give one company a monopoly over rectangles with rounded corners, or technology that is being improved every day by Samsung and other companies. Consumers have the right to choices, and they know what they are buying when they purchase Samsung products. This is not the final word in this case or in battles being waged in courts and tribunals around the world, some of which have already rejected many of Apple's claims. Samsung will continue to innovate and offer choices for the consumer.

What else did you expect them to say? Of course they want to make it look like it's the consumer who will lose. They lost in a court of law and so now want to try to win in the court of public opinion. But the fact is that Samsung infringed on patents that Apple already had. Tech companies like Samsung and Apple are always stepping on each other's toes. This is to be expected in the fast changing world of technology (especially mobile technology). Lawsuits like this are just a way to try to keep one step ahead of their competitors.

The part about Samsung's statement that is funny though is the "fewer choices, less innovation, and potentially higher prices" portion. Apple keeps their price points for new products at the same level as the older models and drops the price on the older versions. That's why you can now get an iPhone 4 for $99 whereas the iPhone 4S starts at $199 (which was the original price point for the iPhone 3G, 3GS, and 4).

Apple has never interfered with a competitor because, in their corporate philosophy (and I know this for a fact as I used to work for Apple), they have no competitors. Companies like Motorola, Samsung, LG, etc are all trying to out-do each other on device specs and making the cheapest devices possible. But Apple truly does care about the user experience first, last, and always.

I've worked for both Microsoft and Apple (at different times in my tech career, of course). It truly is a while different world view at Apple. I've never seen anything like it before. And, as a business owner myself, I try to use the same philosophies in my business. And it's working.

Much if this problem is due to allowing software and software concepts to be patented. This never made sense to me. You can copyright software, but patents just don't seem to be applicable. So one cable box company 'patents' the concept of an on-screen guide being arranged with channels down the side, and times across the top, and now nobody else can do that without violating a patent? (And paying royalties!) There's just no way for a designer to be able to keep track of patented software. What's next? I want to patent the binary digits "0" and "1", anybody who uses them in their software owes me a royalty. I'M RICH!!

I have an early 2008 MacBook (13" White model) and it still works like a champ after 5 years... just not happy that I cannot upgrade to Mountain Lion but maybe it is time for a new laptop.

--Daniel

Thomas wrote:

RottenApple wrote:

Thomas wrote:Samsung's Statement:

Today's verdict should not be viewed as a win for Apple, but as a loss for the American consumer. It will lead to fewer choices, less innovation, and potentially higher prices. It is unfortunate that patent law can be manipulated to give one company a monopoly over rectangles with rounded corners, or technology that is being improved every day by Samsung and other companies. Consumers have the right to choices, and they know what they are buying when they purchase Samsung products. This is not the final word in this case or in battles being waged in courts and tribunals around the world, some of which have already rejected many of Apple's claims. Samsung will continue to innovate and offer choices for the consumer.

What else did you expect them to say? Of course they want to make it look like it's the consumer who will lose. They lost in a court of law and so now want to try to win in the court of public opinion. But the fact is that Samsung infringed on patents that Apple already had. Tech companies like Samsung and Apple are always stepping on each other's toes. This is to be expected in the fast changing world of technology (especially mobile technology). Lawsuits like this are just a way to try to keep one step ahead of their competitors.

The part about Samsung's statement that is funny though is the "fewer choices, less innovation, and potentially higher prices" portion. Apple keeps their price points for new products at the same level as the older models and drops the price on the older versions. That's why you can now get an iPhone 4 for $99 whereas the iPhone 4S starts at $199 (which was the original price point for the iPhone 3G, 3GS, and 4).

Apple has never interfered with a competitor because, in their corporate philosophy (and I know this for a fact as I used to work for Apple), they have no competitors. Companies like Motorola, Samsung, LG, etc are all trying to out-do each other on device specs and making the cheapest devices possible. But Apple truly does care about the user experience first, last, and always.

I've worked for both Microsoft and Apple (at different times in my tech career, of course). It truly is a while different world view at Apple. I've never seen anything like it before. And, as a business owner myself, I try to use the same philosophies in my business. And it's working.

When I have the energy tomorrow, maybe I'll go line by line to refute all of that. Until then, here's this:

Jury in Apple v. Samsung Goofed, Damages Reduced -- Uh Oh. What's Wrong With this Picture? ~pj Updated 3Xs
http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?stor ... 2510525390

So, out of a one-billion dollar judgement, "they" find discrepancies amounting to some 2 million? That's 0.2%, and that guy thinks its going to invalidate the whole judgement?

daniel2002p wrote:I have an early 2008 MacBook (13" White model) and it still works like a champ after 5 years... just not happy that I cannot upgrade to Mountain Lion but maybe it is time for a new laptop.

--Daniel

It's your decision to make and your money to spend, but
EDIT: I encourage you to make a list of how exactly a new laptop will benefit you. Not a list of new features, but a list of how it will actually help you. To be fair, you can put on the list: having the latest and greatest will make me feel better.

sjfcontrol wrote:

Thomas wrote:Jury in Apple v. Samsung Goofed, Damages Reduced -- Uh Oh. What's Wrong With this Picture? ~pj Updated 3Xs
http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?stor ... 2510525390

So, out of a one-billion dollar judgement, "they" find discrepancies amounting to some 2 million? That's 0.2%, and that guy thinks its going to invalidate the whole judgement?

I guess you didn't read the whole article.

Anyway. Just as there are die-hard democrats where no amount of facts can change one's mind, there are diehard Apple worshipers. I've presented many facts, observations, reasonings, etc to many people over the years, and I've never been able to pry any from Apple's deathlike grip. I have been very successful at deterring those who weren't sure though, or just wanted a Mac because they look cool, heard great things, everyone else has one, etc though. I guess brainwashing is an effective tool. That's what most of Apple's ads are.

right back at ya.

At least Apple's worshipers aren't trying to outlaw PCs

Thomas wrote:

daniel2002p wrote:I have an early 2008 MacBook (13" White model) and it still works like a champ after 5 years... just not happy that I cannot upgrade to Mountain Lion but maybe it is time for a new laptop.

--Daniel

It's your decision to make and your money to spend, but
EDIT: I encourage you to make a list of how exactly a new laptop will benefit you. Not a list of new features, but a list of how it will actually help you. To be fair, you can put on the list: having the latest and greatest will make me feel better.

sjfcontrol wrote:

Thomas wrote:Jury in Apple v. Samsung Goofed, Damages Reduced -- Uh Oh. What's Wrong With this Picture? ~pj Updated 3Xs
http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?stor ... 2510525390

So, out of a one-billion dollar judgement, "they" find discrepancies amounting to some 2 million? That's 0.2%, and that guy thinks its going to invalidate the whole judgement?

I guess you didn't read the whole article.

Anyway. Just as there are die-hard democrats where no amount of facts can change one's mind, there are diehard Apple worshipers. I've presented many facts, observations, reasonings, etc to many people over the years, and I've never been able to pry any from Apple's deathlike grip. I have been very successful at deterring those who weren't sure though, or just wanted a Mac because they look cool, heard great things, everyone else has one, etc though. I guess brainwashing is an effective tool. That's what most of Apple's ads are.

right back at ya.

At least Apple's worshipers aren't trying to outlaw PCs

Well, fortunately we have you to promote and defend the PC side.
And here's a back at you.

(Maybe the reason you've been unable to move people to the dark side, is because Apple actually has the superior product.)

sjfcontrol wrote:(Maybe the reason you've been unable to move people to the dark side, is because Apple actually has the superior product.)

The first computers I ever used were Macintoshes, and those worked pretty well. I rarely use modern Macs, but I've had them crash on me more times than PCs. Superior huh?

Oh now it's on!

didn't read the whole thread, but... After the third time I hadda do a wipe and reload Windows XP, I went Mac, and never looked back. Bought a refurb large iMac, it lasted me a handful of years with nary a problem. The hard drive crashed. Instead of just replacing the HD, hadda go buy a new, about to be outdated MacBook Pro. First laptop I ever owned. Synced wonderfully with my iPhone. Glad I got the last generation with the CD/DVD drive. Again, never looked back. Pricey, but kinda sorta worth it. Love my Mac. Talk about Kool-Aid. Even more than GLOCK. Wait, I carry one of those daily. One of us, one of us...

sjfcontrol wrote:(Maybe the reason you've been unable to move people to the dark side, is because Apple actually has the superior product.)

Exactly. What a lot of the champions for PC over Apple fail to recognize is the vast majority of Apple buyers have previously owned or been forced by job circumstances to work on PCs. It's not like they haven't had a chance to make an informed decision. I owned and/or worked with PCs from Windows 3.11 (before that I was working on a Dos shell system) through Windows XP. During the latter half of that time, I also worked with Macs because of certain of my job duties. So I was intimately familiar from a user standpoint with both platforms. When it came time to buy my first laptop, it was a no-brainer to go with an Apple product.......not because they were "cool," but because they were easier to use, less likely to get viruses, and for absolutely certain more stable.

My wife, who is as low tech as anybody I know, struggled to understand the architecture of how a computer works. She's just not equipped for it. She could NEVER understand or remember how to do things on our PC, and was forever interrupting me to ask me how to do the most mundane tasks. She took to Mac OS like a duck to water. That says something right there. Mac OS cured her of her fear of computers....the fear that she would "break it" if she clicked on a given button or something.

So, you can argue network compatibility, cost, software, whatever the PC techies like to argue, but in real practical terms for everyday people who are not techies, the Mac is just plain the superior product.

My own IT guy, who is very much a PC man at heart, told me the other day that "with Windows 7, the PC is now every bit as good as a Mac." I didn't ask him for the opinion. He volunteered it. If Mac is the standard, then the comparison needs no explanation. (And by the way, I am unimpressed with Windows 7. I had the opportunity to use it on a client's laptop recently, and it is just as "clunky" as any previous version of Windows.) I remember back when Windows 95 was supposed to be the cat's meow. The graphic designers in the art department I supervised were joking that Windows 95 was just Apple '88 warmed over. I'm not a hardware guy, but if a computer is defined by its operating system, then Microsoft has been playing catchup to Apple ever since MS first released Windows......and not doing a very good job of it.

To me, it's not about my identity as a computer user. I don't give popcorn fart for whatever anybody thinks of my choices and how they think those choices define me. I could care less. I'm not one of those guys who drives around with the little Apple logo sticker with the bite out of it stuck in my back window. But as a small business owner who can't afford to call the Geek Squad every time an issue comes up, I need a STABLE platform that is fast, that runs my graphics software better than a PC can run them, that can multi-task and then close applications without leaving the RAM cluttered with snippets of leftover code which takes up room and slows the machine down (eventually requiring a reboot), and that can easily be configured by a guy like me to connect to and communicate with all the other computers in my home and office.

Can PCs be made to do most of those things? Yes.....although you will never convince me—after two decades of using both platforms to manage graphics files....not gaming, but pre-press/design graphics—that the PC is as good as the Mac in that regard. It just isn't. (I'm not a gamer, so I don't care one iota about that end of the market.) Why is that so? I don't claim to know enough about hardware to base my statement on that aspect of it. My opinion, for what it is worth, is based entirely on user interface. Apple has it figured out and has made a high art out of it. Microsoft has not. Apple OS is like the Duisenberg to Henry Ford's Model T. You can have that Model T in any color you want, so long as it's black. Both will get you to the market and back, but the latter requires you to carry a wrench and a shop rag in your back pocket on the way, while the other just doesn't need any maintenance. Now maybe that's an issue for guys who really like doing maintenance, but I don't, and neither does the approximately 10% of the computer buying market that understands that dynamic. I'd be willing to bet that a significant chunk of the remainder would switch if they just understood that single dynamic. God how I wish my mother had just ponied up for a Mac and had spared me the countless hours on the phone, late at night, being her personal tech support.

In the printing business I used to work for before I became self-employed, we used Macs to run our graphics suites, and an NT box to run the RIP for outputting film/plates/etc. The NT box excelled at that one thing, but its user interface was atrocious and clunky. Therefore, using it as anything else than a rasterizing image processor was nothing more than an exercise in frustration.

Business apps? I can go spend $200 (or whatever the going rate is now) for a copy of Microsoft Office, or I can spend $79 for a copy of iWorks which will let me read and write to Office file formats if I need to. Yes there are other business applications out there which are written specifically to run on Windows boxes which are industry specific or corporate proprietary suites, but those don't affect me, and they don't affect the vast majority of small business people and home users. Operating system upgrades for Mac OS cost $29, and installing them is easy peasy even for the uninitiated. For all I know, there may be such a thing as the App Store for PC's, but Apple pioneered it, and it makes it really easy for users to purchase and easily install useful applications that have relevance to their lives and their needs, both for business and for personal use.

Did I spend more for my latest purchase, the 27" iMac, than I would have for a PC of near equivalence? Yes, I did.....but the thing is a rocket ship. Will I have to spend money on it to keep it running just as fast and just as stable 4 years from now as it does today? Not according to my experience. Is the Apple store kind of cultic and irritating? Yes it is, although I don't share Sheldon Cooper's disdain for the "Apple Geniuses," all of whom I have found to be courteous, friendly, AND very knowledgeable.

Support? It just doesn't get any better than Applecare. They even fixed my 17" MacBook Pro after I dropped it, AFTER the warranty had expired, and they did it for free. FREE. Including a whole new case to replace the one that was bent by the fall.....and they did it knowing that it was all my fault.

My Macs, including the 4 year old above mentioned MacBook Pro which I am typing this on, get rebooted.....I don't know....maybe once a month? Maybe longer between reboots. THEY. NEVER. CRASH. Not ever. At least not mine. I suppose that you can induce a crash with any computer, Macs included. But under what I would call very regular business and personal use, that has been a non-issue for me.

Is it ALL sweetness and light? No. (It never is.) I have had one major failure of a Mac. My 5 year old 24" iMac finally dropped the drive this past December/January (I don't remember the exact date)—but that was after 5 years of constant and heavy usage. Fortunately, I had all my Time Machine backups on an external drive. I had Apple install a new 500 Gb drive in that machine and gave it to my wife for her desktop use, and I bought the 27" iMac (16 Gb RAM, 1 Tb drive, +extras) for my production machine. I recovered all my software and data from Time Machine and was good to go.

But over all, as an end user, my Mac experience has been FAR more pleasant and problem free than all the years of using Windows machines ever was. They simply don't campare.

As in all things, YMMV.