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What I had in mind was the drawstroke to get to the SOB holster puts your arm into an armbar(chicken wing position). That may get your arm pinned under your body or barred by the BG.

Very real possibility.

I agree going for the gun probably shouldn't be the first thing, very timing dependant among other things. Things like fouled draw, muzzle averted etc.... are usually the result. Of course if your gun gets pinned between you and the ground, that's bad no matter where you carry. I agree that you will have to use your empty hand skill, etc... to get a tool into play. I think that's what you were talking about in your last sentence.

Yup.

That said, I have seen the draw from the strong side and appendix carry work from the ground.

Many modes can be made to work from a disadvantaged position, you may need to fight your way to your weapon though. Few are the people who consider this, and fewer still... who seek out instruction or practice it.

I hope you do not take my posts as a challenge to yours, I am simply "adding" some information I think might help everyone (not that I am an expert by any means).

I know that you seek out good training and are committed to learning. I applaud you for that.

flintknapper wrote:
Many modes can be made to work from a disadvantaged position, you may need to fight your way to your weapon though. Few are the people who consider this, and fewer still... who seek out instruction or practice it.

I agree that they can be made to work and should be practiced. Folks can get a red gun (training gun) and work their drawstroke from various positions. It is easy for folks to get caught up in carry part of CCW, comfy, fast, etc... and not think it all the way through.

flintknapper wrote: I hope you do not take my posts as a challenge to yours, I am simply "adding" some information I think might help everyone (not that I am an expert by any means).

Not at all, you bring up valid points for discussion.

Another point to consider on holster location is the "telegraph" problem. Anytime excessive movement is made to access the firearm, the less time you will have to access it because your opponent has been notified of your intentions and most liklely will get the the drop on you. For the armed proffessional this is less of a problem than for the concealed carry citizen in that the bad guys already knows I have a gun and will be prepared for that.

We train on the principle "Slow is smooth and smooth is fast" by making your movement fluid you follow the tried and true principle that the Economy of motion=Economy of speed. The simpler the mechanics of your draw is, the faster it will be. In relation to this principle and by much study and experience, I still believe that strong side carry at roughly 4 o'clock is the best. My second choice in location that I started using on VIP details is the 11 o'clock cross draw. The reasoning behind this is that 80% of my time was in a vehicle and cross draw works the best.

As for other locations such as SOB, shoulder holster's, ankle..etc each of these have their merit depending on the situation, but they also "telegraph" your movement more than 4 and 11 o'clock.
Almost all my co-workers carry the same way and that is because of experience--when you have to draw your gun from that position and use it in a real-world scenario it will either make you a believer or you will change how you carry, period.

Ranger+P+ wrote:Another point to consider on holster location is the "telegraph" problem. Anytime excessive movement is made to access the firearm, the less time you will have to access it because your opponent has been notified of your intentions and most liklely will get the the drop on you. For the armed proffessional this is less of a problem than for the concealed carry citizen in that the bad guys already knows I have a gun and will be prepared for that.

We train on the principle "Slow is smooth and smooth is fast" by making your movement fluid you follow the tried and true principle that the Economy of motion=Economy of speed. The simpler the mechanics of your draw is, the faster it will be. In relation to this principle and by much study and experience, I still believe that strong side carry at roughly 4 o'clock is the best. My second choice in location that I started using on VIP details is the 11 o'clock cross draw. The reasoning behind this is that 80% of my time was in a vehicle and cross draw works the best.

As for other locations such as SOB, shoulder holster's, ankle..etc each of these have their merit depending on the situation, but they also "telegraph" your movement more than 4 and 11 o'clock.
Almost all my co-workers carry the same way and that is because of experience--when you have to draw your gun from that position and use it in a real-world scenario it will either make you a believer or you will change how you carry, period.

Great points!! Thanks a lot!