fickman wrote:Most CHLers out there don't come to this forum and have these discussions. . . if they entered the mall like I do - through a main, high traffic entrance without seeing a sign - their experience would be exactly the same.
This.
I know Im informed that my mall is posted, last time I went there was the day before mothers day last year. Any other CHLer who enters the mall from a store entrance has no clue the mall is posted. Im sure they could beat the charges in court but not the ride to jail.
2/26-Mailed paper app and packet.
5/20-Plastic in hand.
83 days mailbox to mailbox.
Running Arrow Bill wrote:Another interesting thread... More splitting hairs and getting shorts in a wad over a non-issue. That said...
I only carry where it is accepted, sign or no sign, any type of sign or wording. Any place I'm "non-wanted" I stay away from; this includes "no-smoking" places (yes, I have smoked for 60 plus years).
I don't HAVE to go to or patronize ANY business or place that doesn't accept my pro-gun position or 2nd Amendment rigthts.
I am too old to get detained, arrested, take the ride, or fight for "rights" (aka to enter a anti-gun place and take a chance on being "found out").
If my smoking, or gun bothers or offends you...then just stay away from me and I'll stay away from you and yours!
fickman wrote:Most CHLers out there don't come to this forum and have these discussions. . . if they entered the mall like I do - through a main, high traffic entrance without seeing a sign - their experience would be exactly the same.
This.
I know Im informed that my mall is posted, last time I went there was the day before mothers day last year. Any other CHLer who enters the mall from a store entrance has no clue the mall is posted. Im sure they could beat the charges in court but not the ride to jail.
One clarification. The GPD has stated they MAY arrest a person for carrying in the mall. It is left up to the individual officer's discretion. SO, goes back to being able to convince the officer you were validly unaware of posting and will comply by removing yourself and the weapon from the mall.
Keith
Texas LTC Instructor, Missouri CCW Instructor, NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun Instructor and RSO, NRA Life Member
Keith B wrote:
One clarification. The GPD has stated they MAY arrest a person for carrying in the mall. It is left up to the individual officer's discretion. SO, goes back to being able to convince the officer you were validly unaware of posting and will comply by removing yourself and the weapon from the mall.
The law about the requirements needs to be changed to all public entrances instead of posting only 3 entrances out of 20+. You cannot assume that everyone with a CHL will know its posted and risking them taking a ride to jail for carrying into a posted mall they had no clue was posted.
Ive been to the Grapevine mall a few times, never knew till this thread it was posted. Im sure most of the CHLers who shop there have no idea either and are breaking the law.
2/26-Mailed paper app and packet.
5/20-Plastic in hand.
83 days mailbox to mailbox.
nightmare69 wrote:The law about the requirements needs to be changed to all public entrances instead of posting only 3 entrances out of 20+. You cannot assume that everyone with a CHL will know its posted and risking them taking a ride to jail for carrying into a posted mall they had no clue was posted.
Ive been to the Grapevine mall a few times, never knew till this thread it was posted. Im sure most of the CHLers who shop there have no idea either and are breaking the law.
Well, it's mound standing that GVMM isn't validly posted. The picture of their sign shows the old language, so it doesn't meet current 30.06 requirements. But, that's based off a photo and things others here have said. I've never been to GVMM and probably never will. Wrong side of town for me.
bdickens wrote:Once again, "some guy on the internet said..." is hearsay.
Until I am actually given "effective notice" as defined in the law myself, I have not been given effective notice.
This is the bottom line to me.
If the mall doesn't want me to carry, the law very clearly tells them how to communicate that to me. Seems pretty simple to me. The ball is in their court.
Keith B wrote: They do NOT have to post every entrance.
Seems that we could get in trouble very easily at stores that have multiple entrances.
Distinguished author of opinions and pro bono self proclaimed internet lawyer providing expert advice on what you should do and believe on all matters of life.
nightmare69 wrote:I know, we discussed this for 30mins in my CHL class, my instructor said he carries everytime he goes there. It comes down to personal choice, if you choose to carry you risk being arrested and charged. Is the juice worth the squeeze basically.
Then your instructor should be arrested and lose his CHL.
Why? As far as I know, GVMM is not (properly) posted, so carrying there isn't illegal unless the person in question has received notice some other way.
I am not a lawyer, nor have I played one on TV, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, nor should anything I say be taken as legal advice. If it is important that any information be accurate, do not use me as the only source.
Texas_Blaze wrote:
Seems that we could get in trouble very easily at stores that have multiple entrances.
Talked to a lawyer buddy of mine and he said "good luck to the state making criminal trespass charge stick when the person went through a non posted entrance" He said I would get the mall's security tape and show that my client entered through a non posted entrance with no way of knowing that the mall was posted, he said he was sure he could get the case dismissed.
2/26-Mailed paper app and packet.
5/20-Plastic in hand.
83 days mailbox to mailbox.
Trouble and convicted are two different level.
Ask your buddy what he'd charge to defend an cuff-and-stuff associated with a LEO who takes you to jail for *maybe* violating his thoughts on the law.
If LEOs had as much to lose for falsely arresting someone as we do for being falsely arrested, it'd be a different story.
My LEO friends have a saying... It's a "POP arrest" - ie irritated the Police. Doesn't matter if it's legal or not. Doesn't matter if there is an acquittal or not. There is punitive damage in just effecting the arrest.
I value test cases.. Highly... That's how we clarify our laws and take cases of POP where LEOs aren't held liable to a degree of liability where they can get in a bind. Until I'm successfully retired with more than $3M in the bank, I'm not ready to be one...
LEOs can arrest you for anything they want, proving it in a court of law is a different matter. If I was falsely arrested and later found not guilty or case was dismissed you can bet I will be filing a civil suit. I think its a good idea to record every LEO encounter, not to post it on youtube or anything but have it as proof if your rights were violated to use in court.
If you don't have video proof the its your word against the officers. Who will a jury believe?
2/26-Mailed paper app and packet.
5/20-Plastic in hand.
83 days mailbox to mailbox.
Scott in Houston wrote:I think as a community, we should form a 'pact' to support anyone who becomes one of our "test cases" on things like this, and the others that we know exist (e.g., carrying in a govt owned building that's posted 30.06, etc.).
I know I can't afford the fight. Or if I do, I can temporarily, but it would destroy my daughter's college fund.
I would definitely put resources into a case for a respected member here, who I believed was a true test case (and not causing trouble).
I mailed Joe Horn a check and I will mail anyone else a check who has been arrested illegally after entering a place without legal 30.06 posts or with no effective notice.
P.s. everything on this forum is just heresay. I have never been notified nor served effective noitce.
P.P.S. government has long distance scanners now that can see through your clothes/car at a distance. An elderly couple drove into wash d.c. in their r.v. They had a gun in the R.V. LEO arrested them because they saw the gun with their scanner. It won't be long until private companies buy such scanners. YOu can make a farady shield to guard against illegal warrantless searches with scanners by bagging your essentials in 20 layers of the brown bags they sell microchips and motherboards in. Do not use aluminum foil. It doesn't work.
Scott in Houston wrote:I think as a community, we should form a 'pact' to support anyone who becomes one of our "test cases" on things like this, and the others that we know exist (e.g., carrying in a govt owned building that's posted 30.06, etc.).
I know I can't afford the fight. Or if I do, I can temporarily, but it would destroy my daughter's college fund.
I would definitely put resources into a case for a respected member here, who I believed was a true test case (and not causing trouble).
I mailed Joe Horn a check and I will mail anyone else a check who has been arrested illegally after entering a place without legal 30.06 posts or with no effective notice.
P.s. everything on this forum is just heresay. I have never been notified nor served effective noitce.
P.P.S. government has long distance scanners now that can see through your clothes/car at a distance. An elderly couple drove into wash d.c. in their r.v. They had a gun in the R.V. LEO arrested them because they saw the gun with their scanner. It won't be long until private companies buy such scanners. YOu can make a farady shield to guard against illegal warrantless searches with scanners by bagging your essentials in 20 layers of the brown bags they sell microchips and motherboards in. Do not use aluminum foil. It doesn't work.
Except in your hat. Do you have a link to this? I don't believe it.
Keith
Texas LTC Instructor, Missouri CCW Instructor, NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun Instructor and RSO, NRA Life Member
