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goose wrote:

rotor wrote: This sounds very logical.

Oh, ScottDLS gets a "This sounds logical." But I get a "He is talking about walking past a no trespassing sign." Fine. :-)

goose, my comment here was in regard to LucasMcCain's post and not your comments. The "he" part is not you.

rotor wrote:

goose wrote:

rotor wrote: This sounds very logical.

Oh, ScottDLS gets a "This sounds logical." But I get a "He is talking about walking past a no trespassing sign." Fine. :-)

goose, my comment here was in regard to LucasMcCain's post and not your comments. The "he" part is not you.

Yeah, I knew that. I am just using you as an excuse to lament that fact the ScottDLS used better analogies and examples. It's all good.

goose wrote:

rotor wrote:

goose wrote:

rotor wrote: This sounds very logical.

Oh, ScottDLS gets a "This sounds logical." But I get a "He is talking about walking past a no trespassing sign." Fine. :-)

goose, my comment here was in regard to LucasMcCain's post and not your comments. The "he" part is not you.

Yeah, I knew that. I am just using you as an excuse to lament that fact the ScottDLS used better analogies and examples. It's all good.

Gotta say one thing about ScottDLS, he sure knows his stuff.

rotor wrote:

goose wrote:

rotor wrote:

goose wrote:

rotor wrote: This sounds very logical.

Oh, ScottDLS gets a "This sounds logical." But I get a "He is talking about walking past a no trespassing sign." Fine. :-)

goose, my comment here was in regard to LucasMcCain's post and not your comments. The "he" part is not you.

Yeah, I knew that. I am just using you as an excuse to lament that fact the ScottDLS used better analogies and examples. It's all good.

Gotta say one thing about ScottDLS, he sure knows his stuff.

Agreed. He's good for the board.

Why do people ask these Questions, is that some kind of fraternity Joke?

o b juan wrote:Why do people ask these Questions, is that some kind of fraternity Joke?

I asked the question.

I am carrying to visit my wife in the hospital. My Glock stays in the car, and my Sub 2000 along with two magazines of 9mm come inside with me in my computer backpack. It's not ideal as it would take more time that I would like to get it ready to defend myself, but it's much better than nothing and being a sitting duck if some lunatic(s) or evil doer(s) decides to take his(their) frustrations out on a hospital (which I would consider a high risk zone relative to other businesses).

I gotta say... This thread did not disappoint. My head, originally, agreed with Lucas when I posted the initial question. My heart was always where Scott was. (BTW, some of the best contributions to this board come from all those who posted in this thread! I'm a big fan of Scott's posts in particular.)

After reading up to this point, I have come to my own conclusion that, if I were caught carrying, by some random chance, I'll likely get arrested and take the ride, but will have a good shot to beat the wrap. Although, it will cost $$$$.
If I have to use it in self defense, I suspect there will be no charges. In that case, I cannot see a prosecution on a good guy for taking down a bad guy with a 'vague' law being used to prosecute the good guy. And, if there were charges, the odds of winning go up significantly.

In the end, it's the ole, "Tried by twelve vs. carried by six," issue. I'll risk the tried by 12 as it's very unlikely that either scenario which would reveal that I'm carrying arises, but only one of the two scenarios has the risk of my death, so I'm willing to risk prosecution more than risk my and my loved ones' deaths.

Good stuff... Keep it coming!

First of all guys, thanks so much for not attacking me or anything. I really appreciate being able to discuss things like this on the internet without name calling and insults. It's pretty rare in this day and age.

Next, let me just reiterate that the interpretations I've presented aren't really my own. They are the answers I've been given by two or three different lawyers. Hopefully they were mistaken, but I'm really not sure how to know for sure. Personally, I would very much like to get a sub 2000 specifically for carrying concealed in posted areas. However, I really want to make sure that I stay on the right side of the law while doing so.

So to that end, do you guys have an idea on how we could get a definitive answer to this question? Can we ask for an opinion from the AG office? Should I ask my lawyer if there is specific case law to support their interpretation? Other ideas?

Scott in Houston wrote:

o b juan wrote:Why do people ask these Questions, is that some kind of fraternity Joke?

I asked the question.

I am carrying to visit my wife in the hospital. My Glock stays in the car, and my Sub 2000 along with two magazines of 9mm come inside with me in my computer backpack. It's not ideal as it would take more time that I would like to get it ready to defend myself, but it's much better than nothing and being a sitting duck if some lunatic(s) or evil doer(s) decides to take his(their) frustrations out on a hospital (which I would consider a high risk zone relative to other businesses).

I gotta say... This thread did not disappoint. My head, originally, agreed with Lucas when I posted the initial question. My heart was always where Scott was. (BTW, some of the best contributions to this board come from all those who posted in this thread! I'm a big fan of Scott's posts in particular.)

After reading up to this point, I have come to my own conclusion that, if I were caught carrying, by some random chance, I'll likely get arrested and take the ride, but will have a good shot to beat the wrap. Although, it will cost $$$$.
If I have to use it in self defense, I suspect there will be no charges. In that case, I cannot see a prosecution on a good guy for taking down a bad guy with a 'vague' law being used to prosecute the good guy. And, if there were charges, the odds of winning go up significantly.

In the end, it's the ole, "Tried by twelve vs. carried by six," issue. I'll risk the tried by 12 as it's very unlikely that either scenario which would reveal that I'm carrying arises, but only one of the two scenarios has the risk of my death, so I'm willing to risk prosecution more than risk my and my loved ones' deaths.

Good stuff... Keep it coming!

1) yeah, it's tougher for the hospital person in apparent authority to give any verbal warning to leave, and you fail do do so if they are unaware of any reason to ask you to leave in the first place.
2) Among other things, there's a whole list of reasons to not charge a person "if a circumstance arises where you'd need to use it":
such as SUBCHAPTER C. PROTECTION OF PERSONS, Necessity >> Texas Penal Code § 9.22 http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/S ... m/PE.9.htm

Scott in Houston wrote:

o b juan wrote:Why do people ask these Questions, is that some kind of fraternity Joke?

I asked the question.

I am carrying to visit my wife in the hospital. My Glock stays in the car, and my Sub 2000 along with two magazines of 9mm come inside with me in my computer backpack. It's not ideal as it would take more time that I would like to get it ready to defend myself, but it's much better than nothing and being a sitting duck if some lunatic(s) or evil doer(s) decides to take his(their) frustrations out on a hospital (which I would consider a high risk zone relative to other businesses).

I gotta say... This thread did not disappoint. My head, originally, agreed with Lucas when I posted the initial question. My heart was always where Scott was. (BTW, some of the best contributions to this board come from all those who posted in this thread! I'm a big fan of Scott's posts in particular.)

After reading up to this point, I have come to my own conclusion that, if I were caught carrying, by some random chance, I'll likely get arrested and take the ride, but will have a good shot to beat the wrap. Although, it will cost $$$$.
If I have to use it in self defense, I suspect there will be no charges. In that case, I cannot see a prosecution on a good guy for taking down a bad guy with a 'vague' law being used to prosecute the good guy. And, if there were charges, the odds of winning go up significantly.

In the end, it's the ole, "Tried by twelve vs. carried by six," issue. I'll risk the tried by 12 as it's very unlikely that either scenario which would reveal that I'm carrying arises, but only one of the two scenarios has the risk of my death, so I'm willing to risk prosecution more than risk my and my loved ones' deaths.

Good stuff... Keep it coming!

That's an interesting interpretation. My interpretation was that you could carry a concealed long gun unless asked to leave.

LucasMcCain wrote:First of all guys, thanks so much for not attacking me or anything. I really appreciate being able to discuss things like this on the internet without name calling and insults. It's pretty rare in this day and age.

Next, let me just reiterate that the interpretations I've presented aren't really my own. They are the answers I've been given by two or three different lawyers. Hopefully they were mistaken, but I'm really not sure how to know for sure. Personally, I would very much like to get a sub 2000 specifically for carrying concealed in posted areas. However, I really want to make sure that I stay on the right side of the law while doing so.

So to that end, do you guys have an idea on how we could get a definitive answer to this question? Can we ask for an opinion from the AG office? Should I ask my lawyer if there is specific case law to support their interpretation? Other ideas?

I kinda like the way of "If there's a unenforceable "GunBuster" sign or outdated mis-worded other type sign, "be quiet & carry on" ideology
In other words, If I see no law prohibiting it, and no sign mentions 30.0-5. and it isn't on any list of places "Firearms" are prohibited.... why go asking.

As an analogy used in a post above ...
I don't ask, and see no reason to ask if concealed boxers are allowed or if I must wear concealed briefs instead.

I let sleeping dogs sleep.

But sure, ask your lawyer for any case law on it if you want to.

LucasMcCain wrote:First of all guys, thanks so much for not attacking me or anything. I really appreciate being able to discuss things like this on the internet without name calling and insults. It's pretty rare in this day and age.

Next, let me just reiterate that the interpretations I've presented aren't really my own. They are the answers I've been given by two or three different lawyers. Hopefully they were mistaken, but I'm really not sure how to know for sure. Personally, I would very much like to get a sub 2000 specifically for carrying concealed in posted areas. However, I really want to make sure that I stay on the right side of the law while doing so.

So to that end, do you guys have an idea on how we could get a definitive answer to this question? Can we ask for an opinion from the AG office? Should I ask my lawyer if there is specific case law to support their interpretation? Other ideas?

You are a great contributor to the board. I'm surprised you've only carried for 3 years as your views are more "mature" than that.

I lean the way your attorneys do mainly because attorneys would be trying this case, and generally, there is something to their arguments. I think a jury would end up with a conclusion like Scott lists if the case was tried on "our" side by an equally competent attorney.

My opinion about your question is to not push it further. I tend to believe and prefer to err on the side of not stirring the pot or poking the bear. Asking the AG could create a response that could be used against us, and would stop me from doing what I do now, which is carry my rifle concealed keep the ability to defend myself with me.

If the AG responded in agreement, it would help when/if I was arrested for a carrying it, but it would not prevent that arrest. It would only help at trial.
If the AG responds in disagreement, it would make the trial more difficult, but more importantly, it would dissuade law abiding citizens like us from keeping our right to defend ourselves with us when visiting establishments like this.
In other words, the down side is greater than the upside in regards to asking the AG or pushing this further.

Lastly, get the Sub 2000!!!! It's a great little carbine. I love it. Cheaper to shoot than most carbines and so easy to take with you!

Scott in Houston wrote:

LucasMcCain wrote:First of all guys, thanks so much for not attacking me or anything. I really appreciate being able to discuss things like this on the internet without name calling and insults. It's pretty rare in this day and age.

Next, let me just reiterate that the interpretations I've presented aren't really my own. They are the answers I've been given by two or three different lawyers. Hopefully they were mistaken, but I'm really not sure how to know for sure. Personally, I would very much like to get a sub 2000 specifically for carrying concealed in posted areas. However, I really want to make sure that I stay on the right side of the law while doing so.

So to that end, do you guys have an idea on how we could get a definitive answer to this question? Can we ask for an opinion from the AG office? Should I ask my lawyer if there is specific case law to support their interpretation? Other ideas?

You are a great contributor to the board. I'm surprised you've only carried for 3 years as your views are more "mature" than that.

I lean the way your attorneys do mainly because attorneys would be trying this case, and generally, there is something to their arguments. I think a jury would end up with a conclusion like Scott lists if the case was tried on "our" side by an equally competent attorney.

My opinion about your question is to not push it further. I tend to believe and prefer to err on the side of not stirring the pot or poking the bear. Asking the AG could create a response that could be used against us, and would stop me from doing what I do now, which is carry my rifle concealed keep the ability to defend myself with me.

If the AG responded in agreement, it would help when/if I was arrested for a carrying it, but it would not prevent that arrest. It would only help at trial.
If the AG responds in disagreement, it would make the trial more difficult, but more importantly, it would dissuade law abiding citizens like us from keeping our right to defend ourselves with us when visiting establishments like this.
In other words, the down side is greater than the upside in regards to asking the AG or pushing this further.

Lastly, get the Sub 2000!!!! It's a great little carbine. I love it. Cheaper to shoot than most carbines and so easy to take with you!

It seems that the hospital defines "weapons" as meaning "handguns and knives". It may be parsing of the finest order, but I interpret that to mean that your Sub 2K in a laptop case or backpack would be perfectly acceptable. The worst that could happen is you get found out, told to leave, and you comply with that request and leave.

They could try to charge you with a trespass charge, but you could simply point out that their sign makes it very clear what a weapon is, and your Sub 2K does not qualify for exclusion based on their sign. If they want to make it THAT inclusive despite the imagery, then you could point out that every letter opener, box cutter, pen, pencil, fork, butter knife, and crowbar.........not to mention scalpels and scissors......anywhere in the building is a violation of their own policy.

The Annoyed Man wrote:It seems that the hospital defines "weapons" as meaning "handguns and knives".

It looks to me like revolvers and knives.

Pawpaw wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:It seems that the hospital defines "weapons" as meaning "handguns and knives".

It looks to me like revolvers and knives.

Yep.