Just pulled over, 2 tickets...

[NcongruNt]

A new device that's just come on the market (it's already here in the DFW area) is a camera that is mounted in the patrol car which scans every license plate it sees (coming and going) and instantly runs it for hits. It is unbelievable how fast this is and we don't have to type in anything - it's all done automatically and then it announces to us any hits it got including the description of the car it just ran and the plate number. The cameras are able to read up to 4 lanes of traffic with a single vehicle. They can read over 10,000 plates in just one shift. Hopefully you can see how this would benefit an officer in trying to recover a stolen vehicle or perhaps a kidnapped child where time is of the essence.

More info:
http://www.remingtonelsag.com/mobile-system.htm

Yeah. Not a fan of this system.

There have been times in my life where I had warrants for unpaid tickets that would've had me in the slammer for quite a while with no way to pay my way out. The fact that I could go about finding a job (was unemployed at the time, hence the unpaid tickets) without Big Brother watching for me at every intersection meant that I was able to pay off my tickets and warrants and remain a productive member of society, rather than further burden the overcrowded jails we already have so the city/county can shell out the money to house me to "pay my debt" by sitting in jail for a month. Sit in jail all for nothing more than expired registration and inspection and being laid off in a terrible labor market and economy (think 2001).

This kind of thing is a step in the direction of "papers, please", IMO. I'm not a fan of the police having constant surveillance of the public without specific cause. If I wanted that, I'd move to England (where this system has been in use for a while now), so I can have surveillance cameras yell at me for being impolite or jaywalking. A system such as this is ripe for abuse in a number of ways.

[soccerguy59]

I understand LEO opinion on the need for the front license plate, especially in the world we live today. I am not crazy about the new technology of checking the cars they way it is done, but I don't have anything to worry about doing crimminal activity. It is just frustrating the incoinvience and time for a small infraction.

I found out the car did not pass inspection for one missing lug nut on the front and one broken lug bolt on the rear wheels. Attention to details by my Son and Wife are needed, the inspector said it passed but needed these fixed, all they heard was it passed and did not look for a new window sticker.

I know this is not CHL related other than I am new to carrying, first time pulled over by LEO, hoping for some additional understanding, good guy since I am CHL, but did not get any. We both were professional, I learned some lessons and we all have a better understanding from a LEOs point and need for the front license plate, even if the Citizens don't agree.

[CHL/LEO]

NcongruNT posted:

...the police having constant surveillance of the public without specific cause.

Not sure what you mean by this - would you mind expounding a little? Especially in regards to what specific cause you feel would be appropriate for the police to utilize "constant surveillance" - thanks.

[pbandjelly]

my brain hurts.

I've never been on a Crotch Rocket, but I've nearly run over plenty. I, as well, hold a certain level of "love" for these fine pieces of machinery.

I've always wondered about the front license thing...

[NcongruNt]

NcongruNT posted:

...the police having constant surveillance of the public without specific cause.

Not sure what you mean by this - would you mind expounding a little? Especially in regards to what specific cause you feel would be appropriate for the police to utilize "constant surveillance" - thanks.

I don't believe there is really appropriate cause to have the general public under constant surveillance. There are a few exceptions such as secured areas like courtrooms, but public streets is not one of those. A system like this can be easily used to build a database on the movements of specific persons/vehicles around a city or area. Place them at key intersections and suddenly you have a citizen tracking system. I for one, don't want my every movement tracked and archived by my government.

[KBCraig]

I for one, don't want my every movement tracked and archived by my government.

Government should be watched by the people, not the other way around.

[flintknapper]

I for one, don't want my every movement tracked and archived by my government.

Government should be watched by the people, not the other way around.

Yup!

[BrassMonkey]

Why do you think you have to give your Social Security number when you get a post paid cell phone? Credit Check? HA!

NcongruNT posted:

...the police having constant surveillance of the public without specific cause.

Not sure what you mean by this - would you mind expounding a little? Especially in regards to what specific cause you feel would be appropriate for the police to utilize "constant surveillance" - thanks.

I don't believe there is really appropriate cause to have the general public under constant surveillance. There are a few exceptions such as secured areas like courtrooms, but public streets is not one of those. A system like this can be easily used to build a database on the movements of specific persons/vehicles around a city or area. Place them at key intersections and suddenly you have a citizen tracking system. I for one, don't want my every movement tracked and archived by my government.

[jrosto]

I may be a bit off here, but isn't the recent crack down on front license plates and license plate brackets that cover the state name due to photo enforcement?

Don't red light, toll way and speeding cams image the front plate as well as the rear?

If they cant image your plate, they can't generate revenue.

[para driver]

I didn't get if her car was on an exception list why she was stopped in the first place.

duh, perhaps she was reasonably attractive???

[MrsFosforos]

I didn't get if her car was on an exception list why she was stopped in the first place.

duh, perhaps she was reasonably attractive???

Well yes, she is a cutie - and it is a nice car!

[CHL/LEO]

NcongruNt - I agree with your response but you didn't answer my question in regards to your previous statement -

what specific cause you feel would be appropriate for the police to utilize "constant surveillance"

[NcongruNt]

NcongruNt - I agree with your response but you didn't answer my question in regards to your previous statement -

what specific cause you feel would be appropriate for the police to utilize "constant surveillance"

I believe I answered that here:

I don't believe there is really appropriate cause to have the general public under constant surveillance. There are a few exceptions such as secured areas like courtrooms, but public streets is not one of those.

To expound a little on my statement.....

I meant the "cause" and "general public surveillance" to be separate parts there.

Firstly, I don't think anyone should be under surveillance without specific cause or at least reasonable suspicion, depending on the case.

Secondly, I don't think the public in general should be under constant surveillance at all. I noted exceptions to this exist, but in situations such as courthouses that are established controlled areas and not generally a public thoroughfare outside of those employed in the practice of law.

Before anyone takes this the wrong way, I believe there is a huge difference difference between having police who are part of a community noticing suspicious or out of the ordinary activity and monitoring the general public with constant automated records checks, data logging, and the like.

Having police cars equipped with such equipment spread out over an entire city and tied into a central network already establishes a data infrastructure that can easily provide tracking and logging of anyone whose vehicle comes in view of one of these cars. I also find it very likely that this equipment is tied into location-finding equipment such as in-car GPS receivers. This gives relatively precise location data and records of movement of citizens. I generally see 4 or 5 police cars on my way to work (not counting the dozens parked at the police station), and many more that I am sure I do not see. If all police cars were equipped with this equipment, it would be likely that a record of every movement I make could exist in some central database. This is surveillance of the general public. Apply this to each individual, and this is surveillance without cause. I disagree with both of these activities, and that's what I meant in the statement in question.

[KBCraig]

I may be a bit off here, but isn't the recent crack down on front license plates and license plate brackets that cover the state name due to photo enforcement?

While I won't go so far as to call it revenue enhancement, it is another tool for the police to use. Or put another way, it's another excuse for traffic stops that could lead to something bigger.

That said, I do understand the police perspective on legible license plates. But, the biggest offender there is not frames, but the states themselves. Plates these days are printed with a wild variety of colors and designs, and sometimes the state name is barely readable.

I don't have much of a problem with a rule saying that frames can't obscure the state name or plate number. But at least one state (CT) says you can't have any frame, whether it obscures anything or not.

[CHL/LEO]

NcongruNt - sorry for misunderstanding your post but thanks for the detailed response anyway.

We as police officers also have concerns about big brother watching us too. In addition to the new equipment that I previously mentioned we now have in our squad cars cameras that record video and audio. We recently found out that they are on at all times and in fact they can be monitored from a remote location without us even knowing. So not only can they view our camera but they can listen in on any conversations that are taking place. They now admit that while they do have that capability they would never do such a thing

Also, a few years back they added a GPS tracking device to every vehicle (called an AVL -automatic vehicle locator) that enables them to instantly tell where any squad car is. We were told that this would be an officer safety device and would never be used for any other purpose. Initially that was the case but then it became a monitoring device. Not only can they tell where you are at that moment, they can print out your entire duty shift showing exactly where you went, at what speed, and how long you were at each location. It quickly became a discipline device. For every one time it's been used for officer safety it's been used a hundred times for discipline.

We too remember the old saying, "We're from the government and we're here to help."