TexasCHLforum.com

knotquiteawake wrote:From that article above:

But Hubert Williams, former head of the Newark police department and president of the Police Foundation, said that the idea that average citizens with guns could keep a theater safe only makes sense "on a piece of paper."

"Reality is much more complicated. What if you pull a gun out, take aim and someone else thinks you're the shooter?" he asked. "Would you stand up against an AR-15, AK-47 military-style assault weapon? Give me a break."

"give me a break?" Wow, what a jerk! So surprised to hear that from a LEO. He must have been one of "those types" who lecture any CHL holder they come across about why its a bad idea they have a CHL and how they don't have enough training and they're going to get someone killed (yeah, the bad guy!).

Blatant lies like that make my blood boil! He's a gutless coward who's not fit to wear a badge.

Not only is his statement false, it implies that the better practice is to "let the police handle it." That doesn't work anywhere, but apparently it is especially futile in Colorado. At Columbine, not one but two SWAT teams stood in the parking lot for 20 minutes while people were being murdered and students were holding a sign in a window asking someone to help their teacher who was bleeding out. What was their excuse? "We didn't know where the shooter was and were waiting for intelligence." What!? Napoleon had that one figured out 200 years ago when he told his troops to "ride to the sound of the guns." At Aurora, police were already at the scene working crowd control, but apparently made no attempt to enter for the entire 15 minutes Homes was shooting. Waiting for Colorado police is like waiting for Graves Registration.

Wait for the police huh? Yeah right; I hope this guy stays in New Jersey. Don't come to Texas, not even for a visit, not even to watch a ball game and eat a taco.

[/rant]
Chas.

I've been trying to stop people from the "we could stop a massacre" argument. It is true. It could happen.

But the most compelling argument for concealed carry is that during such a tragedy, at the moment somebody's gun is pointed at my family, my friends, or me, I've at least got a chance to defend myself. There's no dignity in disarming the law-abiding citizen in that moment. Bigger and better things may result from concealed carry (protecting the masses), but all we're asking for at the end of the day is the right to have a fighting chance when our life is on the line.

That's what the knucklehead from New Jersey seems to be overlooking.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:Blatant lies like that make my blood boil! He's a gutless coward who's not fit to wear a badge.

Not only is his statement false, it implies that the better practice is to "let the police handle it." That doesn't work anywhere, but apparently it is especially futile in Colorado. At Columbine, not one but two SWAT teams stood in the parking lot for 20 minutes while people were being murdered and students were holding a sign in a window asking someone to help their teacher who was bleeding out. What was their excuse? "We didn't know where the shooter was and were waiting for intelligence." What!? Napoleon had that one figured out 200 years ago when he told his troops to "ride to the sound of the guns." At Aurora, police were already at the scene working crowd control, but apparently made no attempt to enter for the entire 15 minutes Homes was shooting. Waiting for Colorado police is like waiting for Graves Registration.

Wait for the police huh? Yeah right; I hope this guy stays in New Jersey. Don't come to Texas, not even for a visit, not even to watch a ball game and eat a taco.

[/rant]
Chas.

Yep, I'd like to see this Chief volunteer to take a 9mm or .45 to a vest and see if it would stop him. Chances are he would go down crying, hoping the "experts" will save his bacon.

Also, ever since the release of the audio tapes for the Aurua shooting, I have been a little disappointed in the response of the police. At one point you hear someone saying (paraphrasing), "we need gas masks, we can't go into the theater without gas masks." My thought on hearing that was; people are dying, someone is shooting, put on your big boy panties and get in there and try to stop it. I've been subjected to CS and it sucks, it makes it hard to see, but you can function, "Jaguar, Private E-1 United States Army, 123-45-6789."

Maybe I am being too critical of the police at the scene, but it just struck me wrong when I heard it, and if I'm being too critical then I'm sure someone will set me straight.

Charles L. Cotton wrote: . . . What was their excuse? "We didn't know where the shooter was and were waiting for intelligence." . . .
[/rant]
Chas.

I took that to mean that they were trying to grow brains.

Jaguar wrote:At one point you hear someone saying (paraphrasing), "we need gas masks, we can't go into the theater without gas masks." My thought on hearing that was; people are dying, someone is shooting, put on your big boy panties and get in there and try to stop it. I've been subjected to CS and it sucks, it makes it hard to see, but you can function, "Jaguar, Private E-1 United States Army, 123-45-6789."

Partially in their defense, it's unlikely they knew what the foreign substance was at that time.

It's just another example of the fact that we can't abdicate our right to self defense to anybody. I've got LEOs in my immediate family, and even they'll tell you - they usually get to a scene just in time to start first aid, taking witness report,s and snapping photographs.

fickman wrote:

Jaguar wrote:At one point you hear someone saying (paraphrasing), "we need gas masks, we can't go into the theater without gas masks." My thought on hearing that was; people are dying, someone is shooting, put on your big boy panties and get in there and try to stop it. I've been subjected to CS and it sucks, it makes it hard to see, but you can function, "Jaguar, Private E-1 United States Army, 123-45-6789."

Partially in their defense, it's unlikely they knew what the foreign substance was at that time.

It's just another example of the fact that we can't abdicate our right to self defense to anybody. I've got LEOs in my immediate family, and even they'll tell you - they usually get to a scene just in time to start first aid, taking witness report,s and snapping photographs.

Agreed. If I came upon a scene with gas and knew before arriving that it was a mass shooting, caution would be an understatement.

sjfcontrol wrote:

knotquiteawake wrote:From that article above:

But Hubert Williams, former head of the Newark police department and president of the Police Foundation, said that the idea that average citizens with guns could keep a theater safe only makes sense "on a piece of paper."

"Reality is much more complicated. What if you pull a gun out, take aim and someone else thinks you're the shooter?" he asked. "Would you stand up against an AR-15, AK-47 military-style assault weapon? Give me a break."

"give me a break?" Wow, what a jerk! So surprised to hear that from a LEO. He must have been one of "those types" who lecture any CHL holder they come across about why its a bad idea they have a CHL and how they don't have enough training and they're going to get someone killed (yeah, the bad guy!).

In the first place, protecting the people in a theater from an active shooter (whatever that is) is NOT the reason people get licenses, or carry firearms.
Secondly, couldn't the same argument be made against an armed plain-clothes or off-duty cop in the audience?

It's exactly what I'd expect to hear from a guy who was a police Chief in Newark. There is no way you get made Chief in a place like that unless you're a politically correct collectivist and utterly corrupt --or am I just being redundant? These social Marxists don't care about reality, or truth. Just look at the Marxist in Chief.

philip964 wrote: Here you go. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-501363_162- ... ome-peers/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The AMC at Dunvale near Westheimer in Houston, has the sign stenciled on the doors near the bottom of the door in big letters. I have never compared the writing to see if it is the updated wording, but it looks legit enough. There are fifty front doors, but since it is printed on one of them that seems OK too.

They have either removed the picture you're referring to or you got your links mixed up.

C-dub wrote:

philip964 wrote: Here you go. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-501363_162- ... ome-peers/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The AMC at Dunvale near Westheimer in Houston, has the sign stenciled on the doors near the bottom of the door in big letters. I have never compared the writing to see if it is the updated wording, but it looks legit enough. There are fifty front doors, but since it is printed on one of them that seems OK too.

They have either removed the picture you're referring to or you got your links mixed up.

Don't know if I have a picture of the sign at Dunvale.

But the link is to the request to for a link to the story of no off duty police security at the theater where the shootings occured, but off duty police security at other Cinemark theaters at the same showing.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/james-holmes-p ... Bp8tfWBpyc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

University has a threat assessment team in place to stop Virginia Tech type killings. His psychiatrist was a member of that team. She notified the team about James Holmes, but when he dropped out of school. He was no longer their problem and no action was taken.

philip964 wrote:http://abcnews.go.com/US/james-holmes-p ... Bp8tfWBpyc

University has a threat assessment team in place to stop Virginia Tech type killings. His psychiatrist was a member of that team. She notified the team about James Holmes, but when he dropped out of school. He was no longer their problem and no action was taken.

This is going to bite them hard. Did they think they had no responsibility to the rest of the community or society in general? I thought if a psychiatrist thought a client was going to commit a crime the "doctor-patient" confidentiality thing flew out the window. That might be, obviously, true since the doc went to the team with her opinion.

And this is a classic example of where the whole background check and psychiatric issue breaks down.

Do HIPAAs rules against sharing patient medical information have any exemptions for dangerous psychiatric disorders? If not, the Democrats need to focus on fixing what's broken there - not try to take everyone's guns away.

C-dub wrote:

philip964 wrote:http://abcnews.go.com/US/james-holmes-p ... Bp8tfWBpyc

University has a threat assessment team in place to stop Virginia Tech type killings. His psychiatrist was a member of that team. She notified the team about James Holmes, but when he dropped out of school. He was no longer their problem and no action was taken.

This is going to bite them hard. Did they think they had no responsibility to the rest of the community or society in general? I thought if a psychiatrist thought a client was going to commit a crime the "doctor-patient" confidentiality thing flew out the window. That might be, obviously, true since the doc went to the team with her opinion.

http://celebzter.com/sick-sick-sick-mas ... -fan-club/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He has an on line fan club.

People are asking if it would be ok to dress like him for Halloween.

jimlongley wrote:

. . . What was their excuse? "We didn't know where the shooter was and were waiting for intelligence." . . .

I took that to mean that they were trying to grow brains.

RHenriksen wrote:And this is a classic example of where the whole background check and psychiatric issue breaks down.

Do HIPAAs rules against sharing patient medical information have any exemptions for dangerous psychiatric disorders? If not, the Democrats need to focus on fixing what's broken there - not try to take everyone's guns away.

C-dub wrote:

philip964 wrote:http://abcnews.go.com/US/james-holmes-p ... Bp8tfWBpyc

University has a threat assessment team in place to stop Virginia Tech type killings. His psychiatrist was a member of that team. She notified the team about James Holmes, but when he dropped out of school. He was no longer their problem and no action was taken.

This is going to bite them hard. Did they think they had no responsibility to the rest of the community or society in general? I thought if a psychiatrist thought a client was going to commit a crime the "doctor-patient" confidentiality thing flew out the window. That might be, obviously, true since the doc went to the team with her opinion.

Hearing a bit more about this on the news today, the doc just might be in a little bit of trouble for not reporting him to the police. Maybe more if she's found liable at all for not telling about someone she was treating committing a crime. She thought it was bad enough to report to the school, but decided not to upon finding out he dropped.