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Jusster wrote:

sjfcontrol wrote:Everybody is condemning Zimmerman for acting like a wannabe cop.
Few are condemning Martin for acting like a thug (not wannabe). The reason he wouldn't call 911 if he felt "the old fat white-boy" was a threat was that it would ruin his street cred. He'd rather resolve the situation himself.

Yes, that is supposition, too.

How was he acting like a thug wanna be that day? Was it the skittles? The iced tea? Walking home in the rain? Oh wait, is it the grey hoodie, blue jeans, and white sneakers?

Jusster

How about getting suspended from School from having bag with marijuana residue? Or his gold teeth or His two tattoos or his twitter account #NO_LIMIT_NI****

Jusster,
“whether or not Zimmerman took some blows to the head” may be irrelevant to you but it will not be irrelevant in court. If Zimmerman’s knuckles were bruised and skinned would that be relevant? How about if Martin’s knuckles were bruised and skinned would that be relevant?

No matter who initiated the confrontation or why, if the confrontation had been terminated and Zimmerman was walking back to his truck and was attacked by Martin (as Zimmerman claims), that would make it self defense. The number, seriousness and location of injuries would be very relevant.

The number, seriousness and location of injuries sustained by Martin would be very relevant also.

Being asked why you are walking in a neighborhood might make you angry but it is not justification to attack someone. I am not saying this is what happened, just stating facts.

The only way Zimmerman would have committed a crime is if he struck, grabbed or otherwise initiated physical contact then ended up shooting Martin. I suppose a verbal threat to immediately harm martin would also qualify.

Injuries to both parties will be very relevant in court.

Let’s wait until all the evidence is in.

There are too many people already saying “it doesn’t matter what the law is, he is guilty because ___________. Fill in the blank.

psijac wrote:
How about getting suspended from School from having bag with marijuana residue? Or his gold teeth or His two tattoos or his twitter account #NO_LIMIT_NI****

The hash tag (#) signifies a thread. Its not an account username.

fulano wrote:

psijac wrote:
How about getting suspended from School from having bag with marijuana residue? Or his gold teeth or His two tattoos or his twitter account #NO_LIMIT_NI****

The hash tag (#) signifies a thread. Its not an account username.

True, but that was his account @NO_LIMIT_N****. In it, his cousins boasts about him hitting a bus driver. There were also a lot of tweets that appear typically thugish. Trayvon may not have been a thug, but he was certainly acting like one. His YouTube account has videos of him refereeing fights. So, he was the innocent little child that the media has made him out to be. And his "record" of online activity lends credence to the possibility that he could have been the aggressor. That's not to say that he was, but that he could have been.

BTW, I finally finished transcribing the Anderson Cooper interview with the "new" witness. You can read it here if you're interested. http://txantimedia.com/2012/04/02/the-new-witness/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Did this witness talk to the cops that night, or did they wait a month before saying anything to make sure it was fresh in their mind?

I know from the Erik Scott shooting that even in Las Vegas there is very little CSI even in murder cases.

So the question would be did they trace the bullet from the gun? To me it would seem very easy from the location and direction of the wound trace to determine who was on top or whether the shooter was up close to Trayvon or five feet away.

A wound perpendicular to the body would indicate a shooter on top, a wound that was at an angle, shooter on the bottom. But I am no expert.

One person on the radio admitted that because of work load not every case is throughly examined like this case will be after the fact. It may show that not all the evidence was gathered, not all the proper procedures were followed.

I hope that is not the case as I think because of the publicity all of us want to know what really happened.

Tamie wrote:Did this witness talk to the cops that night, or did they wait a month before saying anything to make sure it was fresh in their mind?

Unfortunately, Anderson Cooper never asked that question, so I don't know.

philip964 wrote:I know from the Erik Scott shooting that even in Las Vegas there is very little CSI even in murder cases.

So the question would be did they trace the bullet from the gun? To me it would seem very easy from the location and direction of the wound trace to determine who was on top or whether the shooter was up close to Trayvon or five feet away.

A wound perpendicular to the body would indicate a shooter on top, a wound that was at an angle, shooter on the bottom. But I am no expert.

One person on the radio admitted that because of work load not every case is throughly examined like this case will be after the fact. It may show that not all the evidence was gathered, not all the proper procedures were followed.

I hope that is not the case as I think because of the publicity all of us want to know what really happened.

The Eric Scott case was a shooting by the lvpd. And since the lvpd *never* has a bad shoot, there was no reason to investigate THAT shooting.

Also, I'm not a CSI either, but seems to me wound tracks would be similar when shooting from an upright position into a person you're sitting on, and shooting up into a person sitting on you. (Upward from belly into the chest?)

However I would think gravity would make the spatter patterns different.

This whole thing stinks to high heaven. I would think the paramedics that attended Zimmerman kept some sort of written document on the call. They probably keep documentation on all calls. If he is charged they could also be subpoenaed to testify to his injuries.

I also would imagine there would be attorneys lining up to file Slander, Defamation, and Libel suits on Zimmerman’s behalf against the networks, newspapers, assorted famous “instigators” and even Martin’s family. Zimmerman should accept NBC’s apology then file suit for a couple of million dollars.

As I have said before, seems to me Zimmerman needs a better attorney.

VoiceofReason wrote:This whole thing stinks to high heaven. I would think the paramedics that attended Zimmerman kept some sort of written document on the call. They probably keep documentation on all calls. If he is charged they could also be subpoenaed to testify to his injuries.

I also would imagine there would be attorneys lining up to file Slander, Defamation, and Libel suits on Zimmerman’s behalf against the networks, newspapers, assorted famous “instigators” and even Martin’s family. Zimmerman should accept NBC’s apology then file suit for a couple of million dollars.

As I have said before, seems to me Zimmerman needs a better attorney.

NBC did not apologize to Zimmerman. They apologized to their viewers for making a mistake.

Has Zimmerman been arrested or indicted for anything yet?

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

LeonCarr wrote:Has Zimmerman been arrested or indicted for anything yet?

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

No. The Grand Jury meets April 10, but there's no indication yet that this case will be handled then. I can't imagine they can wait too much longer. The political pressure is too great. They either have to indict him or announce that they will not. If they do they latter, they're going to have to provide some really good evidence to the public to explain why.

psijac wrote:

Jusster wrote:

sjfcontrol wrote:Everybody is condemning Zimmerman for acting like a wannabe cop.
Few are condemning Martin for acting like a thug (not wannabe). The reason he wouldn't call 911 if he felt "the old fat white-boy" was a threat was that it would ruin his street cred. He'd rather resolve the situation himself.

Yes, that is supposition, too.

How was he acting like a thug wanna be that day? Was it the skittles? The iced tea? Walking home in the rain? Oh wait, is it the grey hoodie, blue jeans, and white sneakers?

Jusster

How about getting suspended from School from having bag with marijuana residue? Or his gold teeth or His two tattoos or his twitter account #NO_LIMIT_NI****

I don't think Zimmerman knew about the marijuana residue, he probably couldn't see his tattoos since he had a hoodie on, the gold teeth probably were fake but who knows, and the twitter.....well I guess he liked Master P ......again who knows. I will just agree to disagree.


Jusster

baldeagle wrote:

Jusster wrote:Actually it is....the eyewitnesses may have seen Martin on top at one point, but if you listen to the 911 call's there are other witnesses who state that Zimmerman was on top at some point as well. In fact, they say another eyewitness has come forward as well who said they saw the whole thing.

"May have" seen Martin on top? "John" is unequivocal that Martin was on top, was beating up Zimmerman and that it was Zimmerman who was crying for help.

Furthermore, there are no other witnesses that saw Zimmerman on top. The two women speculated that Zimmerman was on top, but they didn't even go outside until after the shot was fired, so they couldn't possibly know.

I am in the process of transcribing the interview with the other witness who "saw the whole thing". That's a big stretch. He first heard voices and looked out his window to see what it was. He saw two men on the ground, one on top of the other. Then he went and did other things inside his house. The noises got louder, so he went back to the window and opened it to see what the commotion was. Then he turned away from the window, at which point he heard cries for help, so he went back to the window and looked a third time. He saw two men scuffling and he heard a shot. He said he couldn't really say who was on top. He said he "believed" it was the larger man.

Trayvon was 6'3" and 160. Zimmerman is 5'9" and 170. Who's the larger man?

Jusster wrote:No offense taken, but I’m sure there will be bullet trajectories that will come into play to determine if Martin was on top of Zimmerman when the shot was fired. There will probably be some type of analysis of Zimmermans clothing to determine if the blood splatter or stippling are consistent with his story as well. There will be medical evidence introduced as to Zimmermans true injuries…etc…etc….it’s just my opinion but I have a feeling these things will determine whether Zimmerman goes home or to the big house.

Jusster

I would agree that there should be plenty of forensic evidence on both Trayvon and Zimmerman. Power burns, stippling, blood spatter, all should tell the story.

Point taken. Have you listened to "Johns" 911 call? At that point he said there were two guys wrestling outside. You are correct he did say later in an interview the day after the shooting that he saw Martin on top of Zimmerman. He said, "The guy on the bottom who I believe had a red sweater on was yelling to me "help, help". I told him to stop, and I was calling 911." He then proceeded to go into his home, lock the door, and call 911. He didn't see how the fight started, or how it ended until he saw Marin laying on the ground.

I do believe that Zimmerman asked this guy for help at some point. I also do believe that as some point Martin had the upper hand on Zimmerman. But I also could see Zimmerman getting the upper hand at some point as well, based on the other 911 caller (a female) who said the guy in the white shirt was on top, and yes Mary Cutcher and her roommates account. They may not have been out their when the shots were fired, but neither was john. John saw some part of the fight, the others saw immediately after the shooting. It makes absolutely no sense to me that he would shoot Martin who was on top of him, THEN immediately climb on top of Martin and sit there for a moment? If it had been me, I'd want to put as much distance as possible between me and him. Also one other important thing to me about John's statement. Zimmerman claims Martin was attempting to take his weapon away from him, but there is no mention of a gun by John who witnessed the fight after it started and minutes before it ended.

After reading your transcript of this new witness...I'm not sure what he saw. But your right he didn't see the whole thing. Also, how tall is Martin actually? In the police report it says he is 6' 160. Other's such as yourself say he is 6'2" or 6'3" 170. Maybe they got it from his ID that was a few years old?

I do have a question I'd really like to know. What happened to Zimmerman's red jacket during the fight? If John saw him wearing it, but other witnesses only saw him with a white t-shirt, how did he lose it? Or did he take it off? When the police arrived he seemed to be wearing it again. Just seems strange to me....John see's red jacket after the fight started, others see white t-shirt after shots fired, police report says red jacket when they arrived.

Anyway, I do appreciate your post for clarifying some things for me. The details of this case only seem to lead to more questions.


Jusster

VoiceofReason wrote:Jusster,
“whether or not Zimmerman took some blows to the head” may be irrelevant to you but it will not be irrelevant in court. If Zimmerman’s knuckles were bruised and skinned would that be relevant? How about if Martin’s knuckles were bruised and skinned would that be relevant?

No matter who initiated the confrontation or why, if the confrontation had been terminated and Zimmerman was walking back to his truck and was attacked by Martin (as Zimmerman claims), that would make it self defense. The number, seriousness and location of injuries would be very relevant.

The number, seriousness and location of injuries sustained by Martin would be very relevant also.

Being asked why you are walking in a neighborhood might make you angry but it is not justification to attack someone. I am not saying this is what happened, just stating facts.

The only way Zimmerman would have committed a crime is if he struck, grabbed or otherwise initiated physical contact then ended up shooting Martin. I suppose a verbal threat to immediately harm martin would also qualify.

Injuries to both parties will be very relevant in court.

Let’s wait until all the evidence is in.

There are too many people already saying “it doesn’t matter what the law is, he is guilty because ___________. Fill in the blank.

That's not what I was trying to say. His last comment was in regards to "My theory". My theory is that Zimmerman started the fight with Martin which would include the physical altercation. Maybe he pushed Martin because he felt disrespected. He's friend did come to his defense and say that Martin should have showed him some respect. Maybe Zimmerman was tired of them "always getting away" and wanted to make sure he didn't. He must not have been to scared to go running after Martin in the first place. Maybe Martin smarted off to him like a typical 17 year old would do, and Zimmerman wanted to teach him a lesson. I don't think Zimmerman was just walking back to his truck and got jumped. One reason, because why was the last thing he told the SPD dispatcher was to have LEO call him so he could tell him where he would be? My theory, because his plan was to continue looking for Martin and he didn't know where he would be....nobody knows at this point so as far as I'm concerned my theory is just as sound as anybody else’s.

What I meant was I feel that Zimmerman started the physical altercation. I even made the analogy in another post to a drunk in a bar biting off more than he could chew, he was so mad about it he shot him. I don't feel that Zimmerman thought his life was in danger, I think he killed him because he was getting his butt kicked after starting a fight. To me, that's hurt feelings not self defense.

My theory may not be true, none of us know the truth right now, but there are way too many unanswered questions to give him a pass.

This has nothing to do with my response but I did find it interesting SPD released all 47 of Zimmermans 911 calls.....if you're ever bored.....really bored someone might find it interesting....

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/ ... istory.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Jusster