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Re: ABC 20/20 "Guns in America"
Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:35 pm
by Purplehood
gregthehand wrote:I once again would like to mention that I saw how the "gunman" new exaclty where their opposition would be sitting. I mean it was very obvious to me that as soon as he shot the lecturer he turned exactly where they would be sitting. I even noticed at one point the student got up and moved the gunman's left. The guman had I guess practiced so much that they had to pause a moment and figure out where the person had gone. Also I noticed the gunman always focused only on the student with the firearm and never even looked at anyone else.
In my opinion the gunman had been told or trained (or both) where the student with the weapon would be seated.
I was also upset that the first guy they showed carrying told the girl next to him that he was armed. Obviously they showed this to cover the angle of if students carry others will know and not want to come to class.
I'm thinking about performing my own little experiment. I have a place that is just like a classroom I could use for the experiment. I think I could get a reasonable amount of people to show up as well. I think a better idea would be to find out who in the group has a CHL. Then figure out a way to randomly pick one of those that does and have them be the armed student. I would actually want everyone in the classroom setting to be un-aware of what would happen. Maybe even the lecturer. Furthermore I would not tell the shooter they were the shooter until just before the others. Maybe run a few expriments where they had time to study the room but not where people sit. Then have the student carrying concealed sit where every they like. Also everyone would wear whatever they felt like. I understand having everyone wear the same thing but I think ABC did this in hopes they would look scientific. Unfortunatley by having the gunman know where the student with the gun would be the credibility of the study went right out the window. Anyone interested in being involved with this if I put it together?
I am, but only as long as you are using those orange-fake guns for the exercise...
Re: ABC 20/20 "Guns in America"
Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 3:33 pm
by gregthehand
The guns part was something I was wondering about. I am trying to get a hold of Simunition and see how much two conversion kits and some ammo would cost. I figure I can always do some good training with the sim guns on down the road. Maybe if the sim ammo is cheap I can practice in my own back yard!
I will keep everyone updated as to what I find out. I'm serious about wanting to do this and post it on youtube.
Re: ABC 20/20 "Guns in America"
Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 3:46 pm
by gregthehand
Ok they only sale to Law Enforcement. The only other option would be if I had a bonofide shooting range that conducted training. At that point I would have to contact Simunition and say pretty please and they *might* give me a letter saying I can purchase their (very expensive) equipment. My only other hope is the used market as it seems they don't have any control on that.
So what about Airsoft? Maybe a high quality airsoft pistol or two would work?
Re: ABC 20/20 "Guns in America"
Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 4:16 pm
by KD5NRH
Skiprr wrote:In a street scenario, I'll take G.C. with a knife every time over my next-door neighbor with a gun.
You just need better neighbors, then.
Regardless of how anyone feels about the situation where he did it, my neighbor has proven that he can make a solid hit on a small moving target with a concealable pistol under stress. My only concern if there's ever a major neighborhood issue is finding good cover and a good backstop, since anything that happens is pretty likely to happen between our houses.
Re: ABC 20/20 "Guns in America"
Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 4:26 pm
by Purplehood
gregthehand wrote:Ok they only sale to Law Enforcement. The only other option would be if I had a bonofide shooting range that conducted training. At that point I would have to contact Simunition and say pretty please and they *might* give me a letter saying I can purchase their (very expensive) equipment. My only other hope is the used market as it seems they don't have any control on that.
So what about Airsoft? Maybe a high quality airsoft pistol or two would work?
When I was a USMC Recruiter back in Denver in the mid-80s we used to play the Denver SWAT-team in paintball. They figured it was valid training, so shouldn't we?
Re: ABC 20/20 "Guns in America"
Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:07 pm
by boomerang
gregthehand wrote:I once again would like to mention that I saw how the "gunman" new exaclty where their opposition would be sitting. I mean it was very obvious to me that as soon as he shot the lecturer he turned exactly where they would be sitting. I even noticed at one point the student got up and moved the gunman's left. The guman had I guess practiced so much that they had to pause a moment and figure out where the person had gone. Also I noticed the gunman always focused only on the student with the firearm and never even looked at anyone else.
In my opinion the gunman had been told or trained (or both) where the student with the weapon would be seated.
How else were they supposed to guarantee the BG wins?
A more honest experiment would be to run 10 scenarios where none of the victims are armed and 10 scenarios where 1-3 of the intended victims are randomly armed. No assigned seating. The 20 scenarios would be run in a random order, with the armed and disarmed mixed together. At the end we count up the number of BG "kills" when all victims are disarmed compared to the total BG "kills" when people shoot back.
Does anybody else hear the Wizard of Oz in their head when they see "If I only had a gun"
Re: ABC 20/20 "Guns in America"
Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 11:33 pm
by KD5NRH
gregthehand wrote:The only other option would be if I had a bonofide shooting range that conducted training.
You could check with
Tac Pro. I think they still do force-on-force training with Simunitions. The owner is as pro-RKBA as one might expect, so if you can provide a camera crew, he might be willing to use his classroom and equipment. I'm sure other training centers have similar setups.
Re: ABC 20/20 "Guns in America"
Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 7:14 am
by tboesche
gregthehand wrote:
I'm thinking about performing my own little experiment. ?
Greg, I fyou need volunteers let me know!
Re: ABC 20/20 "Guns in America"
Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 9:47 am
by rgoldy
OK, 1. Did you really expect ABC or CBS networks to present both sides of the issue in ANY sort of even handed way?
2. Do you really think that poking holes in the logic of what they did, on this forum is productive?
3. Several of you have presented the argument in most logical and erudite manner, but WE already agree.
Don't waste your eloquent words on discussion here. Talk to your friends and neighbors about the single minded
prosecution of anti-gun rhetoric by both ABC and CBS in this instance. Call the local affiliate stations and complain
to them about the obvious bias shown. Write on the web sites of both networks about your dis-pleasure and why.
Gun owners have been silent objects of attack. It is time we started making our political strength known.
JOIN THE NRA if you have not, ADD family members to the NRA. Join your state association if there is one.
Mainly, don't take it lying down. You have a voice to correct the lies through the internet, and through phone calls.
Use it.
rant off.................
Sorry guys I just had to say it.
Re: ABC 20/20 "Guns in America"
Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 9:48 am
by Purplehood
I prefer to rant enthusiastically but in a futile-manner. That is just me.
Re: ABC 20/20 "Guns in America"
Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:03 pm
by srothstein
gregthehand wrote:Ok they only sale to Law Enforcement. The only other option would be if I had a bonofide shooting range that conducted training. At that point I would have to contact Simunition and say pretty please and they *might* give me a letter saying I can purchase their (very expensive) equipment. My only other hope is the used market as it seems they don't have any control on that.
Well, if you get around to doing this, let me know. I have three simunition revolvers plus plenty of ammo for them in our warehouse. I am sure we can work something out with a couple officers getting training in the scenario.
Re: ABC 20/20 "Guns in America"
Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:14 pm
by gregthehand
srothstein wrote:gregthehand wrote:Ok they only sale to Law Enforcement. The only other option would be if I had a bonofide shooting range that conducted training. At that point I would have to contact Simunition and say pretty please and they *might* give me a letter saying I can purchase their (very expensive) equipment. My only other hope is the used market as it seems they don't have any control on that.
Well, if you get around to doing this, let me know. I have three simunition revolvers plus plenty of ammo for them in our warehouse. I am sure we can work something out with a couple officers getting training in the scenario.
Sounds good.
Re: ABC 20/20 "Guns in America"
Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 1:49 pm
by USA1
watched the show,very one sided,anti gun. i would rather have a fighting chance than not be armed at all ! if im going down im takin em down with me !
