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TAM, I generally agree with what you are saying, and can't argue with your logic(as usual, doggonit).

In this case I believe her training, practice, and instinct allowed her survive. I also believe that if one chooses to carry a .380 they must train and practice more(than a person carrying a larger caliber gun), as accuracy in using a smaller caliber becomes of paramount importance, in order to overcome any perceived deficiencies in carrying that caliber when defending oneself.

Just my personal opinion.

I have a girls gun ?

handog wrote:I have a girl's gun?

Only if you look at it that way.

To paraphrase what others have said, you should carry the largest caliber you can operate well, shoot accurately, conceal readily. Sometimes a .380 is the largest you can conceal, depending on what you're wearing. In that case, carry the .380. With a different outfit, you may be able to conceal something larger. If so, carry that one, if you are comfortable with it.

LarryH wrote:

handog wrote:I have a girl's gun?

Only if you look at it that way.

To paraphrase what others have said, you should carry the largest caliber you can operate well, shoot accurately, conceal readily. Sometimes a .380 is the largest you can conceal, depending on what you're wearing. In that case, carry the .380. With a different outfit, you may be able to conceal something larger. If so, carry that one, if you are comfortable with it.

I agree with that...I do have my LCP like i mentioned above, summer wear.I am not as slim around the waste line as i used to be.
When wearing a jacket i carry a Glock 33 in .357 Sig.

gregthehand wrote:I carry the Kel-Tec .380 ACP almost all the time now. I use Speer Gold Dot 90 grain bullets and have ran two boxes through it with never a jam. I'm thinking about getting a Bersa just to have one I guess!

You've already got a .380, so make your Bersa an UC 9 or a .40; you'll be able to find and afford ammo.

handog wrote:I have a girls gun ?

Not at all. I own two of them. They just aren't my go to choice for concealed carry because of mechanical reliability and lack of faith in the cartridge. As long as yours isn't pink, it's not a girl's gun and you can look at yourself in the mirror.



Joe, I can't argue your point either.

I can! I believe you need to practice constantly to maintain proficiency. I don't think one caliber requires any more or less practice than another. All need practice and all need continued practice to maintain proficiency.The amount of practice and proficiency level are unique to each shooter's comfort level and ability. A gun is a gun and a trigger is a trigger and sights are sights - use'm right and just shoot'em straight.

CompVest wrote:I can! I believe you need to practice constantly to maintain proficiency. I don't think one caliber requires any more or less practice than another. All need practice and all need continued practice to maintain proficiency.The amount of practice and proficiency level are unique to each shooter's comfort level and ability. A gun is a gun and a trigger is a trigger and sights are sights - use'm right and just shoot'em straight.

I have a Sig P 230 SL that is reserved for more formal carry; e.g., weddings, funerals, Bar Mitzvas, etc. So far, it eats everything I've fed it including my reloads.

Granted, its cartridges are not as 'studly' as my 1911 cartridges but I've never had, nor have I heard of, anyone anywhere volunteering to stand in front of it and prove how inadequate it is.

Did I mention how pretty my Sig P 230 SL is the last time the .380 acp debate took place on this forum? If not, it is truly a little silver beauty!

I usually end up carrying my Sig P238 most of the time due to its small size/weight. Hornady Critical Defense is the only thing that is kept in it for defense purposes.

I'll agree that the .380 is not the best defense round but its way better than having nothing at all.

Don't remember who said it - might've been Ayoob - but I always agreed with this sentiment when choosing a CCW (paraphrasing): If I KNEW I was going into a fight, I wouldn't take ANY handgun as my main firearm. I'd take a rifle, or a tank, or a carrier battle group. So ANY handgun is a compromise on some level. If I could effectively conceal an AR-15 pistol, I'd choose that over a .45. If I could effectively conceal (and it was legal) a sawed-off 12-gauge shotgun, I'd carry that.

But the minimum I will carry is a .380. If I can't conceal my LCP, then I need to wear more or different clothes .... which leads me to wonder where those sunbathing old nudists at Hippie Hollow on Lake Travis are hiding their CCW .... wait, nevermind, I DON'T want to know the answer to that They need to wear more clothes - I'll just leave it at that.

Once in a while I'll carry my snubbie with powerball ammo loaded in a pocket holster.This is a 100grain bullet at 1150fps from a 1.875 inch barrel for 294 ft. pds. The best 380 load I have seen is a 90 grain +P from Buffalo Bore at 1174fps giving 276 ft pds of energy. I'm not sure of the barrel length but I would hate to be in a life and death situation with anything less.
Truthfully, I hate the idea of carrying my 45 cal Sig 364 days a year and then not having it, the one day I actually need it.

How 'bout you say something like, "why darling, that (insert your choice of gun/caliber here) makes you look even more slender than you already are!"

Or, "I want you to be able to defend yourself and the children as best as possible. Therefore I would like you to come to a romantic dinner and the range with me and let you choose a larger capacity/caliber pistol that you are comfortable with. Then I will buy you a new purse, and you can keep your .380 as a "bug"."
I think this would work best if you got down on one knee.
Might be tough to get the rangemaster to let you set up the candels and flowers on the bench but it's worth a shot - no pun intended.

But seriously, we did discuss the merits of larger capacity/caliber with her and she agreed.
Granted she upgraded from a five shot .357 to a 15 shot .40 but you get the point.
Now she wants an AK folder to compliment the 12 gauge in the trunk (of her car) - God I love that woman!

handog wrote:I have a girls gun ?

Do you have a Beretta? They called James Bond's Beretta a "ladies gun" in Dr. No.

Replaced it with a Walther PPK in 7.65mm (.32) because the 7.65 hits "like a brick through a plate-glass window."

The Annoyed Man wrote: Joe, I can't argue your point either.

CompVest wrote:I can! I believe you need to practice constantly to maintain proficiency. I don't think one caliber requires any more or less practice than another. All need practice and all need continued practice to maintain proficiency.The amount of practice and proficiency level are unique to each shooter's comfort level and ability. A gun is a gun and a trigger is a trigger and sights are sights - use'm right and just shoot'em straight.

Thank you CV. I was hoping someone would say something like that, to enable me to respond.

I TOTALLY agree with you that you need to practice constantly to maintain proficiency. Totally. It's a fact. Shooting proficiently is not like riding a bicycle. For a bicycle, once you learn how to ride, you never forget how to. It can be 50 years from your last ride, and once you get on, you can bicycle well. Not so in shooting, as you well know. Maybe not a good comparison, but I think you know what I mean. Infrequent shooting leads to inaccuracy, and severe loss of proficiency. It is the degree of proficiency to which I am referring, especially when using the .380.

" I don't think one caliber requires any more or less practice than another." I do. Especially if one realizes that the caliber one is shooting is not an optimum caliber for self defense. I realize( I REALLY do) that the .380 has its limitations compared to anything larger. HOWEVER, if I am very proficient in using that caliber, I can overcome some(or most) of those limitations. But ONLY if I become very proficient. The reason being......

In a self defense situation where the use of deadly force is needed or justified, I will shoot until the threat on my life stops. I have no desire to kill someone...naturally. No one does.

I am convinced that using a larger caliber to stop a threat is not as critical of an issue as using the .380 to stop that same threat. Therefore, my need to be more proficient in using the .380 caliber is more necessary than that of a larger caliber.

I would LOVE to be able to carry every day a sub-compact 9mm, 40 S&W, or .45acp. But that's not in the cards. I am required to carry what I carry.... a .380. So I have a mindset I MUST be extremely proficient in my carry piece. I have to overcome those limitation that everyone has so aptly pointed out. And I can only do that with training and practice.

It's late as you can tell by the time stamp, but I hope I've explained well enough how I feel for you to understand.

Bottom line. The .380 IS underpowered for self defense for the casual or inexperienced shooter, or one who is not extremely proficient. It is not for those that are.