TexasCHLforum.com

PappaGun wrote:

jimlongley wrote:... TSA, where I worked for three plus years also, despite "allowing" guns to be transported in checked bags, says CHL on airport property is illegal.

Jim,
Is this a local interpretation from TSA?
I've lived in other parts of the country where carrying in the non-secure areas of the airport didn't seem to be an issue.
But I couln't tell you if that was local custom, a different TSA interpretaion or some thing else.
Does TSA jurisdiction extend in to the unsecured area of the airport?

No, TSA "jurisdiction" does not extend to the unsecured area, but that does not stop the local "Federal Security Director" (FSD) from attempting to make it so. At one point during my late lamented employment there, they were stationing us at baggage claim to check boarding passes against bag tags. Of course we were about 200% overstaffed at the time and they were trying to figure out what to do with the excess, but the sense of empowerment led to a couple of minor confrontations between TSA supervisors and the flying public before they cancelled that policy.

Due to differences between airport facilities, FSDs and their staffs are given a great deal of lattitude in implementation, and some of them just go a little too far. Each FSD has a number of airports to administer, so they rely on their staff (Assistant FSDs &c) to promulgate sets of rules that fit within the federal guidelines, and of course those guidelines, as with any other written word, are subject to misinterpretation.

And at Dallas Love Field one of the most famous was the day the AFSD told us, at a pre-opening meeting, that we could detain CHL holders found to be carrying at baggage check in. That one didn't last very long either.

And then there was the one where, as federal employees, we could not carry on airport PROPERTY because it was under federal jurisdiction, no parking lots, and not even if we were flying out as civilians. The parking lot prohibition was still on after I left, but the carry as a civilian traveler went waya eventually.

All subject to interpretation of the written word.

...there's something against the American spirit, let alone being a Texan, when we're told that we must live in fear of someone else's lack of knowledge of the law..."or we'll take the ride"...it raises my hackles and sets my heels like a bully's taunt...I WILL live within the law...I WON'T let others' ignorance of the law change my right to do something...if they don't listen to reason and check their information, and cause my arrest when I have broken no law...there are civil courts to address that in...yes, it may cost me time and money and trouble...but if you want to follow the fearful warnings...why even carry a gun, 'cause if you shoot someone you might go to jail and you might have to hire an expensive lawyer and you might be found wrong...so let's all just put our guns away and hope for the best...I think not...this country, this state, were formed by folks who weren't timid about putting their butts where their mouths were...they risked their lives for what they believed...I think we can have enough courage to live within our rights instead of worrying about "gettin' in trouble"....

speedsix wrote:...there's something against the American spirit, let alone being a Texan, when we're told that we must live in fear of someone else's lack of knowledge of the law..."or we'll take the ride"...it raises my hackles and sets my heels like a bully's taunt...I WILL live within the law...I WON'T let others' ignorance of the law change my right to do something...if they don't listen to reason and check their information, and cause my arrest when I have broken no law...there are civil courts to address that in...yes, it may cost me time and money and trouble...but if you want to follow the fearful warnings...why even carry a gun, 'cause if you shoot someone you might go to jail and you might have to hire an expensive lawyer and you might be found wrong...so let's all just put our guns away and hope for the best...I think not...this country, this state, were formed by folks who weren't timid about putting their butts where their mouths were...they risked their lives for what they believed...I think we can have enough courage to live within our rights instead of worrying about "gettin' in trouble"....

speedsix wrote:...there's something against the American spirit, let alone being a Texan, when we're told that we must live in fear of someone else's lack of knowledge of the law..."or we'll take the ride"...it raises my hackles and sets my heels like a bully's taunt...I WILL live within the law...I WON'T let others' ignorance of the law change my right to do something...if they don't listen to reason and check their information, and cause my arrest when I have broken no law...there are civil courts to address that in...yes, it may cost me time and money and trouble...but if you want to follow the fearful warnings...why even carry a gun, 'cause if you shoot someone you might go to jail and you might have to hire an expensive lawyer and you might be found wrong...so let's all just put our guns away and hope for the best...I think not...this country, this state, were formed by folks who weren't timid about putting their butts where their mouths were...they risked their lives for what they believed...I think we can have enough courage to live within our rights instead of worrying about "gettin' in trouble"....

As I've said before, if we're going to fear doing things that are not illegal -- for fear of being wrongly arrested -- that does not stop at where we go armed. We might as well never leave our bedrooms.

...I can get in a world of trouble in my bedroom.....

Well, I had to limit it somewhere....

I agree with what speedsix wrote. The point of my posts on this thread was not to instill fear, rather to inform. It's one thing to accept the risks you know about. It's something entirely different to unknowingly put oneself at risk. There are those of us with the willingness and wherewithal to fight the system in the event of a wrongful arrest. There are also many among us who cannot afford to or simply are not willing to, and should be warned of the potential fallout.

We're all on the same side

djjoshuad wrote:I agree with what speedsix wrote. The point of my posts on this thread was not to instill fear, rather to inform. It's one thing to accept the risks you know about. It's something entirely different to unknowingly put oneself at risk. There are those of us with the willingness and wherewithal to fight the system in the event of a wrongful arrest. There are also many among us who cannot afford to or simply are not willing to, and should be warned of the potential fallout.

We're all on the same side

I lead my entire life by assessing risks and making decisions about what chances that I'm willing to take. As you point out, the key is "informed" decisions. I don't want to be surprised by being unknowingly dragged into be the test case for something. On this forum, the situation with Grapevine Mills Mall and the implied willingness for Grapevine police department to make individual officers to make the decision about arresting CHLs there in spite of the invalid 30.06 sign is one such case. As a policy, I won't shop there. There may be times, however, when I have to go there and I need to make a decision to carry or not, understanding the potential consequences.

I race sailboats. Part of the tactics of sailboat racing is using the rules to your advantage. There is always some lout on the race course who yells and screams at other sailors, trying to bend the rules to his advantage, fully understanding that he is wrong. Sometimes, it is a simple matter of someone incorrectly interpreting the situation because of the complexity of that situation and the speed at which the circumstances change which rule actually applies. In my current model boat sailing, the consequences are usually not more than a couple of evenings of repair work. I've been in collisions on big boats where those consequences are much more severe and may actually result in serious injuries. The point of my comparison is simply that having a license to carry a weapon is much the same. The rules are complex and open to the interpretation of those who may or may not have the legal right to that interpretation. There is always a lout around who will try to push the law way past its intention and that is just one of the potential risks to be minimized, as we do in sailing, by paying attention and avoiding louts.