TexasCHLforum.com

CC Italian wrote:Last time I saw a group of local constables talking together they were all carrying 1911s. I love 1911s but I thought they would want more rounds. Every city cop in Houston I have seen carries a High Capacity 12+ handgun. Maybe the constables in the suburbs have less restrictions on what they can carry? I don't know but if I was a LEO I would take 12-17 rounds over a single stack 1911.

Very high round count is not a high priority in law enforcement where sustained suppressive fire is frowned upon. I'm good with 8 or more in a serious defensive caliber.

The LE requirement is all about putting a small number of rounds all exactly where they need to go - every time - under the real world conditions Skiprr so accurately described.

The FBI concluded that shot placement is the primary standard above all others, including depth of penetration (should be 12 -14"); so trying to argue about the power of a 380 verses a 10 doesnt disprove shot placement, but in fact may help to prove it.

Maybe I missed it (I quit reading) but nothing tangible has been offered that disproves the FBI's analysis is wrong. Rhetoric and conjecture will not disprove scientific analysis from such a recognized organization of experts. Its research concludes that "shot placement is everything", and that is unarguably definitive.

Seriously, a pellet would not penetrate to the depth of a 10, but no if's, ands, or buts about it, a BB or pellet hit to the eye will cause a more disabling injury then a hit from a 45 to the behonkus; and quite probably a one shot stop or death.

Below links to google regarding pellet gun deaths:
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&safe=off&s ... 37&bih=511

I don't think anyone is saying that perfect shot placement isn't the goal. The problem is that in real world situations, your shot placement isn't going to be perfect. Ammunition that makes a bigger and deeper hole in the bad guy gives you a better chance of success (stopping the threat) when your shot placement suffers from any of the countless factors that are present in a life and death situation that simply cannot be replicated in training.

And even if perfect shot placement were possible, and clothing, bones, and other stuff doesn't hinder the effectiveness of the round... I think I would rather have a perfect shot on target with a .45 than a perfect shot on target with a .380. But maybe that's because I'm a pessimist - a pessimist that wants to survive the encounter.

If a .380 is all that your situation allows, then by all means, carry a .380. But trying to claim that you're not giving up something in the process is just not a realistic view of the situation.

Sangiovese wrote:I don't think anyone is saying that perfect shot placement isn't the goal. The problem is that in real world situations, your shot placement isn't going to be perfect. Ammunition that makes a bigger and deeper hole in the bad guy gives you a better chance of success (stopping the threat) when your shot placement suffers from any of the countless factors that are present in a life and death situation that simply cannot be replicated in training.

And even if perfect shot placement were possible, and clothing, bones, and other stuff doesn't hinder the effectiveness of the round... I think I would rather have a perfect shot on target with a .45 than a perfect shot on target with a .380. But maybe that's because I'm a pessimist - a pessimist that wants to survive the encounter.

If a .380 is all that your situation allows, then by all means, carry a .380. But trying to claim that you're not giving up something in the process is just not a realistic view of the situation.