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Re: Background checks looking like the "compromise"
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:51 pm
by Keith B
mamabearCali wrote:Of all the awful things out there the NICS check is in theory the least nasty of them. However my concern is that this could be used to create a de-facto gun registry in the future. We could try to make that impossible by law, but the powers that be can always get around it. The second amendment is very clear on arms....do not infringe....yet here we are talking about infringing on peoples private property and their ability to transfer it to another person.
Why should a grandfather have to pay a $25 surcharge to give his grandson his shotty. If I buy a mosin nagant for my father's birthday and I want to give it to him do I have to pay for a background check on him. He is my dad I know for darn certain that he is not a felon or mentally unstable. It would do nothing to stop anything bad from happening. As we saw with Lanza, if a criminal is denied he will simply go looking for another avenue to get what he wants.
If there is no other choice but to cede this or lose our weapons then so be it. But let us not give in just to give in. Remember, if you give a mouse a cookie.....
edited for grammar
The way I understand the push is for background checks on gun show sales and not private sales away from a 'show' just a collection of people show up to check out guns and you may not know the person.
And while I know this administration and his cronies would like to prevent ANY gun sale or transfer, I would think that even if they did put private sales under the requirement that a transfer on a bequest or gifting to a family member would be exempt. (At least I would hope so.)
Re: Background checks looking like the "compromise"
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:05 pm
by Robert*PPS
I feel very enlightened by Anygun and Charles conversation (and all the others too). The ultimate goal is to swell the ranks of pro gunners so that the majority of politicians aren't in the position to flex from a hard-line stance in the first place. That will be our true victory. Until then, I think it's clear that slowing any advancement in gun control law is staying in the fight.
Re: Background checks looking like the "compromise"
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:15 pm
by anygunanywhere
Robert*PPS wrote:I feel very enlightened by Anygun and Charles conversation (and all the others too). The ultimate goal is to swell the ranks of pro gunners so that the majority of politicians aren't in the position to flex from a hard-line stance in the first place. That will be our true victory. Until then, I think it's clear that slowing any advancement in gun control law is staying in the fight.
That Charles is one smart man.
If he and I were to get into a battle of wits mine would be the half-wit. I am glad he is on our side.
In his half reality hypothetical those legiscritters claimed that their constituents were demanding they do something so they were leaning towards the scenario.
I do not want to be one of those NRA lobbyists. They probably eat and drink real good. Regularly wash down ribeyes with good bourbon and light up a COhiba now and then.
I want to be one of those constituents that is a real pain. I want to be one of the constituents that those legiscritters thinks they need to do some pro gun stuff so I wil shut up.
But I won't shut up.
Who is with me?
Anygunanywhere
Re: Background checks looking like the "compromise"
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:32 pm
by mamabearCali
I think we should be very very loud and boisterous and constant in our defense. Speak up speak the truth. Now when it comes to working with the devil unfortunately even if you do everything right your hands might still end up singed. However we are part of that voice that is the NRA. If there is no choice however and the gun is being held to our head that we either accept the AWB/ mag limits or go with NICS checks, then of course we choose background check. After all every weapon I have bought has come with a NICS check.
I am not sure who they are targeting though, because I have bought all my guns at gunshows and have had a background check with everyone of them. So.....what are they trying to do?
Re: Background checks looking like the "compromise"
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:39 pm
by Wes
mamabearCali wrote:I am not sure who they are targeting though, because I have bought all my guns at gunshows and have had a background check with everyone of them. So.....what are they trying to do?
They are trying to convince the general public that private sales at gun shows are part of the cause for all the problems which leads the uninformed to believe that anyone can buy anything at a gun show with no background nics check.
Re: Background checks looking like the "compromise"
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:21 pm
by tbrown
mamabearCali wrote:I am not sure who they are targeting though, because I have bought all my guns at gunshows and have had a background check with everyone of them. So.....what are they trying to do?
The most likely explanation might trigger Godwin's Law, so I'll suggest the alternate theory that they have been lying so much, and for so long, that they wouldn't recognize the truth if it bit them on the ankle.
Re: Background checks looking like the "compromise"
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:28 pm
by Andrew
tbrown wrote:mamabearCali wrote:I am not sure who they are targeting though, because I have bought all my guns at gunshows and have had a background check with everyone of them. So.....what are they trying to do?
The most likely explanation might trigger Godwin's Law, so I'll suggest the alternate theory that they have been lying so much, and for so long, that they wouldn't recognize the truth if it bit them on the ankle.
I'm sure that everyone who posts here would be able to avoid introducing such to the thread, at least for a few more pages, lol..
Re: Background checks looking like the "compromise"
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:37 pm
by Keith B
mamabearCali wrote:
I am not sure who they are targeting though, because I have bought all my guns at gunshows and have had a background check with everyone of them. So.....what are they trying to do?
Sales of firearms by a private individual (not a dealer) at gun shows in Virginia and Texas do not require a background check of the purchaser. The seller only has to reasonably believe the purchaser can legally buy and own the firearm to be able to sell it to them.
Re: Background checks looking like the "compromise"
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:47 pm
by mamabearCali
Keith B wrote:mamabearCali wrote:
I am not sure who they are targeting though, because I have bought all my guns at gunshows and have had a background check with everyone of them. So.....what are they trying to do?
Sales of firearms by a private individual (not a dealer) at gun shows in Virginia and Texas do not require a background check of the purchaser. The seller only has to reasonably believe the purchaser can legally buy and own the firearm to be able to sell it to them.
Well yes if it is private person to private person. However even in private sales it is standard to ask for drivers licence and either a voter registration card or a CHL. That way you know they are a resident and you know they are not a felon. That does not cover the mental health aspect, but I suppose you are supposed to know crazy when you see it. I have been to maybe 5 gunshows in Richmond VA. Mostly what I saw was tables full of dealers (all who do a gun check) and maybe 10 or so people with rifles with for sale stickers and a price walking around. Really the private sales were few are far between. So when they say this is an issue I think they are full of bovine excrement. I think they just don't like the idea of a bunch of us who like guns getting together and having a good time talking about them and buying other "toys".
Re: Background checks looking like the "compromise"
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:56 pm
by G26ster
mamabearCali wrote: Mostly what I saw was tables full of dealers (all who do a gun check) and maybe 10 or so people with rifles with for sale stickers and a price walking around. Really the private sales were few are far between. So when they say this is an issue I think they are full of bovine excrement. I think they just don't like the idea of a bunch of us who like guns getting together and having a good time talking about them and buying other "toys".
Not quite the same in major cities in TX. Here in the DFW area, for example, there are many private sellers/collectors that have tables at the shows. Sure there are plenty of dealers, but also plenty of private sellers with tables. That plus lots of folks walking around with signs and/or flags in their barrels saying "for sale."
Re: Background checks looking like the "compromise"
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:59 pm
by apostate
If that's what they're talking about, they should call it "the garage sale loophole" or "the newspaper ad loophole" or...
Re: Background checks looking like the "compromise"
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:13 pm
by ghostrider
If that's what they're talking about, they should call it "the garage sale loophole" or "the newspaper ad loophole" or..
that's not scary enough. A garage sale might only have a few guns, while clearly a gun show is "acres of guns being sold willy nilly to anyone with a pulse since no background checks are done because of that loophole that is so big you could drive a convoy of Mack trucks through...."
:-)
Re: Background checks looking like the "compromise"
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:25 pm
by K.Mooneyham
anygunanywhere wrote:Robert*PPS wrote:I feel very enlightened by Anygun and Charles conversation (and all the others too). The ultimate goal is to swell the ranks of pro gunners so that the majority of politicians aren't in the position to flex from a hard-line stance in the first place. That will be our true victory. Until then, I think it's clear that slowing any advancement in gun control law is staying in the fight.
That Charles is one smart man.
If he and I were to get into a battle of wits mine would be the half-wit. I am glad he is on our side.
In his half reality hypothetical those legiscritters claimed that their constituents were demanding they do something so they were leaning towards the scenario.
I do not want to be one of those NRA lobbyists. They probably eat and drink real good. Regularly wash down ribeyes with good bourbon and light up a COhiba now and then.
I want to be one of those constituents that is a real pain. I want to be one of the constituents that those legiscritters thinks they need to do some pro gun stuff so I wil shut up.
But I won't shut up.
Who is with me?
Anygunanywhere
How about this? I'm waiting for a new response from Congresswoman Granger's office. If I don't like that one, I'm probably going to write for further clarification. Politely, of course.
Re: Background checks looking like the "compromise"
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:30 pm
by carlson1
It would be interesting to know the percentage of "private sellers" that set up tables at gun shows.
G26ster wrote:mamabearCali wrote: Mostly what I saw was tables full of dealers (all who do a gun check) and maybe 10 or so people with rifles with for sale stickers and a price walking around. Really the private sales were few are far between. So when they say this is an issue I think they are full of bovine excrement. I think they just don't like the idea of a bunch of us who like guns getting together and having a good time talking about them and buying other "toys".
Not quite the same in major cities in TX. Here in the DFW area, for example, there are many private sellers/collectors that have tables at the shows. Sure there are plenty of dealers, but also plenty of private sellers with tables. That plus lots of folks walking around with signs and/or flags in their barrels saying "for sale."
Re: Background checks looking like the "compromise"
Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:06 am
by G26ster
carlson1 wrote:It would be interesting to know the percentage of "private sellers" that set up tables at gun shows.
G26ster wrote:mamabearCali wrote: Mostly what I saw was tables full of dealers (all who do a gun check) and maybe 10 or so people with rifles with for sale stickers and a price walking around. Really the private sales were few are far between. So when they say this is an issue I think they are full of bovine excrement. I think they just don't like the idea of a bunch of us who like guns getting together and having a good time talking about them and buying other "toys".
Not quite the same in major cities in TX. Here in the DFW area, for example, there are many private sellers/collectors that have tables at the shows. Sure there are plenty of dealers, but also plenty of private sellers with tables. That plus lots of folks walking around with signs and/or flags in their barrels saying "for sale."
I was addressing the collectors (C&R license) who are not dealers, not in business, and to my knowledge no 4473 is required when they sell one. There are certainly more of them at the Dallas Gun Collectors show than at the Ft. Worth shows, but I have no idea of the percentage. But at either show, I'd say the vast majority of sellers are licensed dealers. The term private seller was a poor choice of words on my part. Sorry.