bizarrenormality wrote:Some people might say shooting a stray snake on sight or leaving poison out to kill rats is not right.
A squirrel is a rat with a bushy tail.
Anygunanywhere
Yep... I loved eating squirrel. Back in the day, squirrel fed my family when finances were not available to buy meat. We use to call them "Tree Rats".
The little terrors have over taken my residential neighborhood. They get in attics and create unbelievable damage. They are cute to watch but have zero fear of humans around here. I was pulling some weeds the other day and one of them was nibbling on an acorn while staring at me from about three feet away. At first I thought it was cute and went for my cell phone to snap a picture. Then I got to thinking the little scavenger wasn't acting scared enough and thought it might be rabid. The third time I said, "get out of here" he moved to my second bedding area right across the sidewalk and went back to digging up acorns. It is amazing how wild life loses its natural fear of humans when they are never hunted in an area.
You know what I am done here (with this topic). I am sure I could find hundreds of articles with kids bitten by snakes, kids bitten by squirrels, kids bitten by ground hogs. All things that having cats outside help reduce. I don't think that would convince or even reason with some of you guys.
Yes cats can be annoying and they can go feral. Yes they can spread rabies if not vaccinated. So can possums, raccoons, foxes, coyotes, rats, mice, etc etc. Do we have such an attitude with those animals. Not often, they are accepted as part of life. Cats can be a nuisance. So are rats living under your shed destoying your summer lawn chairs. I gather most of y'all live in suburban and urban settings. Cats are a part of our ecosystem. They are a boon in extreme suburbs and rural areas, and could be a boon in suburban areas too---can't help the urbanites. They keep the rat and snake population down and unlike rats if they are somewhat socialized to a home they are fixed (that keeps those midnights howls to a minimum) and given rabies shots to keep them from spreading disease.
This whole thread reminds me of when I was a kid I did not understand why people hunted. I felt sorry for the deer that got eaten. I felt bad for the rabbit. It was not until I was older that I understood that the deer ate the corn destined for my plate, and the rabbit ate the green vegetables and tore up the tomato plants. Do I want to kill all the deer or rabbits, no, of course not. But if a cat keeps some of the pests out in the field rather than in my garden with little effort from me I am appreciative of their services. Perhaps if more of us understood how food is grown and what other animals can do to the food supply then the lowly housecat that roams the front and backyards could get some respect.
I think we forget what dirt under our nails feels like and what a blessing some of the maligned species are. So we take out all the feral cats in a subub, the bunny and rat population explodes. So in come the snakes to fill that void and some of them are benign brown snakes and constrictors, but some of them are lethal. Or we take out the feral cat population and a bigger threat (such a foxes or coyotes moves in). Now which do you want in your yard the neighbors cat catching a pest or a fox tearing up your fence or a coyote yapping 1/4 mile away? A sick cat is not near the threat that a sick coyote is. Or worst of all we take out all the predators (because we don't like them and find them threatening) and now we have explosions of rats and bunnies and now they are invading your shed, your house, and your foundations. Now you have some real damage going on. Ecology y'all. Mother nature. If you mess with it too much it will bite you in the rear.
Last edited by mamabearCali on Thu Mar 21, 2013 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
SAHM to four precious children. Wife to a loving husband.
"The women of this country learned long ago those without swords can still die upon them!" Eowyn in LOTR Two Towers
About 70 million cats are estimated as feral or free-roaming in the United States, and it is putting pressure on wildlife species and resources to solve the problem.
The result: the fight is on, and it is squarely focused on how to solve this population boom which now rivals the numbers of "owned" cats.
Anygunanywhere
"When democracy turns to tyranny, the armed citizen still gets to vote." Mike Vanderboegh
"The Smallest Minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." – Ayn Rand
So anygunanywhere you going to give me a gold star for finding a feral kitten socializing him to people, fixing him, vaccinating him and making sure he isn't impregnating the area cats or are you going to fuss at me for letting my (vaccinated sterile) cat roam in the woods next to my house and catch mice?
edited to add
I should note that we did sterilize all the cats that came to the farm as soon as we could catch them. Kept the fights to a minimum.
SAHM to four precious children. Wife to a loving husband.
"The women of this country learned long ago those without swords can still die upon them!" Eowyn in LOTR Two Towers
mamabearCali wrote:So anygunanywhere you going to give me a gold star for finding a feral kitten socializing him to people, fixing him, vaccinating him and making sure he isn't impregnating the area cats or are you going to fuss at me for letting my (vaccinated sterile) cat roam in the woods next to my house and catch mice?
edited to add
I should note that we did sterilize all the cats that came to the farm as soon as we could catch them. Kept the fights to a minimum.
Mamabear,
My actual hunting experiences and discussing the issue with wildlife experts tells me that there is nothing gained by allowing feral cats to remain in the wild. They are not a natural part of the ecosystem,. They are parasites and are to be considered an invasive species the same as fire ants and others that have been introduced and do damage to the existing species. The feral cat problem can be directly blamed as one of the reasons for the decrease in the quail populations and other wild animals.
If you want to consider feral cats as a benefit you are free to do so and it is your opinion but facts are facts. Feral cats are a problem.
Anygunanywhere
"When democracy turns to tyranny, the armed citizen still gets to vote." Mike Vanderboegh
"The Smallest Minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." – Ayn Rand
mamabearCali wrote:So anygunanywhere you going to give me a gold star for finding a feral kitten socializing him to people, fixing him, vaccinating him and making sure he isn't impregnating the area cats or are you going to fuss at me for letting my (vaccinated sterile) cat roam in the woods next to my house and catch mice?
edited to add
I should note that we did sterilize all the cats that came to the farm as soon as we could catch them. Kept the fights to a minimum.
Mamabear,
My actual hunting experiences and discussing the issue with wildlife experts tells me that there is nothing gained by allowing feral cats to remain in the wild. They are not a natural part of the ecosystem,. They are parasites and are to be considered an invasive species the same as fire ants and others that have been introduced and do damage to the existing species. The feral cat problem can be directly blamed as one of the reasons for the decrease in the quail populations and other wild animals.
If you want to consider feral cats as a benefit you are free to do so and it is your opinion but facts are facts. Feral cats are a problem.
Anygunanywhere
My experience on the farm, leads me to understand that cats can be a vital part of life and without them other species encroach that while they may be natural they are not nearly as benign to human beings. Rattle snakes are natural but I don't want them under my porch. Coyotes are natural but I would appreciate them not being in my yard. As I have said before it is not my kitty basking in the sun that you have to worry about. If you want to worry about something worry about the feral cats. As I have added on a few times now I am in favor of spay and neuter programs. We fixed all our cats. Thus many of the negatives of cats are removed with most of the postive's remaining.
Facts are facts....where there are kitties outside basking (them being fixed has nothing to bear on their hunting prowess) there are less rats and less mice and less poisonous snakes. I am in favor of that.
SAHM to four precious children. Wife to a loving husband.
"The women of this country learned long ago those without swords can still die upon them!" Eowyn in LOTR Two Towers
Facts is facts and without cats, civilization could not have arisen as it did. You want to know why the Egyptians held cats in such high regard? Because they kept a rodent population under control that would otherwise have decimated their granaries.
What we ought to be concerned about is the feral human population.
What I dislike are people who believe they can dump them (and dogs) in my rural neighborhood and they will be “free” to live as God intended. I really dislike rednecks that find sport in tossing cats from moving vehicles, my current cat has broken teeth from being dumped in that manner. I found another very sweet cat that showed up crippled under my hedge. I paid $150 for a vet to check her out and then to put her down when the injury was too sever for her to be saved - all because someone thought it would be fun to dump her from their car at 30 MPH.
I don’t mind folks that don’t like cats, I dislike many things other people like. Heck, my wife doesn't like cats, if it were not for the fact that our current cat showed up beaten and battered yet still willing to accept people as part of her life we would never have a cat, much to my dismay.
I dislike folks that treat the lives of some creatures below contempt and in the process of disposing of their temporary inconvenience are purposely or inadvertently cruel to one of God’s creatures. My cat, spayed and vaccinated and hunting mice in the neighbor’s field is not part of the feral cat problem.
My son and I were discussing great inventions, I asked what he thought man's greatest invention ever was. He replied, "the dog." Even as a "cat person" I had to agree with him.
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." -- James Madison
I live in the city limits so I can't legally shoot the feral cats that poop in the flower beds along my sidewalk. I also can't shoot the cats that go under my house to copulate (loudly). I also can't shoot the cats that urinaten on my front porch furniture, nor can I shoot the cats that dig up my flower beds in my FENCED back yard.
suthdj wrote:Double edge sword. If the owners kept thier pets on a leash/in thier yard that would not happen.
Ever kept a cat on a leash? Or in your yard?
Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea.
- Robert A Heinlein.
Nope I would not own a cat, but just the same it can be kept in the house and I know they escape yadda yadda yadda bottom line is when your pet is dead there is only 1 person to blame.
You actually think you COULD own a cat...?
I never let schooling interfere with my education. Mark Twain
What I dislike are people who believe they can dump them (and dogs) in my rural neighborhood and they will be “free” to live as God intended. I really dislike rednecks that find sport in tossing cats from moving vehicles, my current cat has broken teeth from being dumped in that manner. I found another very sweet cat that showed up crippled under my hedge. I paid $150 for a vet to check her out and then to put her down when the injury was too sever for her to be saved - all because someone thought it would be fun to dump her from their car at 30 MPH.
I don’t mind folks that don’t like cats, I dislike many things other people like. Heck, my wife doesn't like cats, if it were not for the fact that our current cat showed up beaten and battered yet still willing to accept people as part of her life we would never have a cat, much to my dismay.
I dislike folks that treat the lives of some creatures below contempt and in the process of disposing of their temporary inconvenience are purposely or inadvertently cruel to one of God’s creatures. My cat, spayed and vaccinated and hunting mice in the neighbor’s field is not part of the feral cat problem.
My son and I were discussing great inventions, I asked what he thought man's greatest invention ever was. He replied, "the dog." Even as a "cat person" I had to agree with him.
"Journalism, n. A job for people who flunked out of STEM courses, enjoy making up stories, and have no detectable integrity or morals."
suthdj wrote:Double edge sword. If the owners kept thier pets on a leash/in thier yard that would not happen.
Ever kept a cat on a leash? Or in your yard?
Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea.
- Robert A Heinlein.
Nope I would not own a cat, but just the same it can be kept in the house and I know they escape yadda yadda yadda bottom line is when your pet is dead there is only 1 person to blame.
