TexasCHLforum.com

elpjt wrote:Thanks for the responses. I am looking for stats or numbers that show the benefits on CHL's in the congregation.

That may be hard to find since there is no way of knowing for sure how many people are carrying. Show him the stats of how much less likely a CHL is to commit a crime compared to the general population and law enforcement officers. That should convince him.

I'll have to do a search or Keith or Charles may have that link handy.

Here is one article by Charles. https://www.texasfirearmscoalition.com/ ... ry-conduct" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

someone wrote a good article about shootings in churches about a year or two back.

I do know that if my pastor were to post our church he would lose our family, and I'm pretty sure we wouldn't be the only ones to leave.

Here's a better idea; recommend to your pastor the church sponsor a chl license class and encourage staff and members attend.

That's what will make the church safer if that is his goal.

I carry at Church on Sundays.

mojo84 wrote:Here's a better idea; recommend to your pastor the church sponsor a chl license class and encourage staff and members attend.

That's what will make the church safer if that is his goal.

I am a Pastor and this is exactly what I do. Our Moderator, Crossfire has held several Texas CHL classes and Utah CFP classses sponsored by my church. Mr. Cotton has been sponsored to teach his seminar there. In fact he needs to come back. I hope reads this.

You could also show him instances of when a CHL holder stopped the attacker before hurting anyone or hurting more. Then you could mention that if he puts up proper signage there won't be anyone around like that to even have the possibility of stopping someone until the police arrive minutes later. You could ask him how many of his flock is he willing to sacrifice until they arrive?

Jimmy Meeks, a Hurst Police Officer and Pastor, started SheepDog Seminars for churches: http://www.sheepdogseminarsforchurches.com/home.html His purpose is to let church leaders know that there is a real danger out there and to make them realize there is a need to be prepared.

Carl Chinn speaks at the SheepDog seminars was the facility manager at Focus on the Family when the hostage taking and shooting incident in 1996 and on his church's security team involved in responding to a shooting in 2007. His website is:http://www.carlchinn.com/ I really recommend reading his book: "Evil Invades Sanctuary".

Those two sites are great places to start to get churches and other faith based organizations aware of the danger out there.

Ron

rtschl wrote:Jimmy Meeks, a Hurst Police Officer and Pastor, started SheepDog Seminars for churches: http://www.sheepdogseminarsforchurches.com/home.html His purpose is to let church leaders know that there is a real danger out there and to make them realize there is a need to be prepared.

Carl Chinn speaks at the SheepDog seminars was the facility manager at Focus on the Family when the hostage taking and shooting incident in 1996 and on his church's security team involved in responding to a shooting in 2007. His website is:http://www.carlchinn.com/ I really recommend reading his book: "Evil Invades Sanctuary".

Those two sites are great places to start to get churches and other faith based organizations aware of the danger out there.

Ron

this is what you're looking for, he has loads of articles and I think he has stats too.

Thanks, I am in no hurry to start the discussion so let them cool off a bit.

You might want to ask him to look into the shootings in Aurora and Colorado Springs. In 2007, a woman with a CHL stopped a mass shooting from being worse in the New Life Church in Colorado Springs. In 2012, an off duty officer shot a shooter in a church in Aurora. Point out that the second was the only person authorized to have guns there but you cannot always count on a cop being around when you need him. There is a well known saying about there never being a cop around when you really need one.

rtschl wrote:Jimmy Meeks, a Hurst Police Officer and Pastor, started SheepDog Seminars for churches: http://www.sheepdogseminarsforchurches.com/home.html His purpose is to let church leaders know that there is a real danger out there and to make them realize there is a need to be prepared.

Carl Chinn speaks at the SheepDog seminars was the facility manager at Focus on the Family when the hostage taking and shooting incident in 1996 and on his church's security team involved in responding to a shooting in 2007. His website is:http://www.carlchinn.com/ I really recommend reading his book: "Evil Invades Sanctuary".

Those two sites are great places to start to get churches and other faith based organizations aware of the danger out there.

Ron

From what I can tell from attending one of Jimmy Meeks seminars, he is not a supporter of CHLs responding to an active shooter in a church. He pushes unarmed eyes and ears team members acting as cannon fodder until paid security (which he will gladly provide you with for the right price) or local LEO responds. He even shows a bunch of pics of unarmed "Sheepdogs" who died (unnecessarily as far as I'm concerned) defending the church against active shooters. It took almost a year for us to rebuild our eyes and ears team after his "presentation" at our church.

jmra wrote:

rtschl wrote:Jimmy Meeks, a Hurst Police Officer and Pastor, started SheepDog Seminars for churches: http://www.sheepdogseminarsforchurches.com/home.html His purpose is to let church leaders know that there is a real danger out there and to make them realize there is a need to be prepared.

Carl Chinn speaks at the SheepDog seminars was the facility manager at Focus on the Family when the hostage taking and shooting incident in 1996 and on his church's security team involved in responding to a shooting in 2007. His website is:http://www.carlchinn.com/ I really recommend reading his book: "Evil Invades Sanctuary".

Those two sites are great places to start to get churches and other faith based organizations aware of the danger out there.

Ron

From what I can tell from attending one of Jimmy Meeks seminars, he is not a supporter of CHLs responding to an active shooter in a church. He pushes unarmed eyes and ears team members acting as cannon fodder until paid security (which he will gladly provide you with for the right price) or local LEO responds. He even shows a bunch of pics of unarmed "Sheepdogs" who died (unnecessarily as far as I'm concerned) defending the church against active shooters. It took almost a year for us to rebuild our eyes and ears team after his "presentation" at our church.

Interesting JRMA. I was thinking about getting them to come to our church to do a seminar for us and other local churches. Your comments cause me to rethink that idea.

rtschl wrote:From what I can tell from attending one of Jimmy Meeks seminars, he is not a supporter of CHLs responding to an active shooter in a church. He pushes unarmed eyes and ears team members acting as cannon fodder until paid security (which he will gladly provide you with for the right price) or local LEO responds. He even shows a bunch of pics of unarmed "Sheepdogs" who died (unnecessarily as far as I'm concerned) defending the church against active shooters. It took almost a year for us to rebuild our eyes and ears team after his "presentation" at our church.

Wow I was not aware that E&E teams were setup like this on purpose. We were told not to carry due to Security Guard PC restrictions. Going to rethink become involved with our E&E after my newborn hiatus is over.

sounds like he's reading the law very tightly. "eyes & ears" doesn't necc mean security to me.

SewTexas wrote:sounds like he's reading the law very tightly. "eyes & ears" doesn't necc mean security to me.

That's the problem with the way the code is written, depending on who is doing the interpreting, it can be a very wide net.