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Re: buying guns for someone else
Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:39 pm
by VMI77
OldGrumpy wrote:AndyC wrote:Yeah, that's how I see it, too.
Although I agree that he lied on the form - and he's going to bear the consequences - I'm finding it hard to see any concrete crime in this.
There was no intent to evade the background check itself that I can see (obviously, as both parties went through their respective background checks and passed) - which is the whole point of those instructions, I presume. I'm calling this "scope creep".
The crime is he lied to the government on an official document. That is a felony. In my years of human resource management for a quasi-government agency I fired a number of people for lying on their application form. it was not relevant what the lie was about - all that mattered was they denied me the opportunity to make an honest decision because they lied.
Funny, how the people who wrote the Constitution didn't think lying to the government was a Federal Felony. Lie on a form, go to jail...if you're one of us peons that is. Lie under oath to Congress....no problem if you've been anointed into the ruling class. This country has been turned upside down and inside out.
Re: buying guns for someone else
Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:38 pm
by C-dub
VMI77 wrote:OldGrumpy wrote:AndyC wrote:Yeah, that's how I see it, too.
Although I agree that he lied on the form - and he's going to bear the consequences - I'm finding it hard to see any concrete crime in this.
There was no intent to evade the background check itself that I can see (obviously, as both parties went through their respective background checks and passed) - which is the whole point of those instructions, I presume. I'm calling this "scope creep".
The crime is he lied to the government on an official document. That is a felony. In my years of human resource management for a quasi-government agency I fired a number of people for lying on their application form. it was not relevant what the lie was about - all that mattered was they denied me the opportunity to make an honest decision because they lied.
Funny, how the people who wrote the Constitution didn't think lying to the government was a Federal Felony. Lie on a form, go to jail...if you're one of us peons that is. Lie under oath to Congress....no problem if you've been anointed into the ruling class. This country has been turned upside down and inside out.
Re: buying guns for someone else
Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 6:57 pm
by Mike.B
Are some of you really supporting a police officer who lied under oath?
Re: buying guns for someone else
Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:52 pm
by C-dub
Not exactly. I say that under these circumstances the question that he lied about is irrelevant.
Re: buying guns for someone else
Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 8:02 pm
by sjfcontrol
Is signing a form that claims it's signing under penalty of purgery, the same as signing "under oath"? Who swore him in?
Serious question, not trolling.
Re: buying guns for someone else
Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 11:50 pm
by EEllis
sjfcontrol wrote:Is signing a form that claims it's signing under penalty of purgery, the same as signing "under oath"? Who swore him in?
Serious question, not trolling.
No it's not but that isn't the question. It says if you lie you commit a crime so his knowledge is obvious in that he admitted to filling the question fraudulently. The only real issue is if the question is information the legislation requires the seller to keep.
Re: buying guns for someone else
Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 6:28 am
by b322da
sjfcontrol wrote:Is signing a form that claims it's signing under penalty of purgery, the same as signing "under oath"? Who swore him in?
Serious question, not trolling.
If you are referring to Mike B's question above, let me rephrase it a bit.
"Are some of you really supporting a police officer who lied under penalty of perjury?"
Surely you do not hold a public official to a higher standard of truth when he signs under oath than when he signs under penalty of perjury?
Jim
Re: buying guns for someone else
Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 8:57 am
by EEllis
b322da wrote:sjfcontrol wrote:Is signing a form that claims it's signing under penalty of purgery, the same as signing "under oath"? Who swore him in?
Serious question, not trolling.
If you are referring to Mike B's question above, let me rephrase it a bit.
"Are some of you really supporting a police officer who lied under penalty of perjury?"
Surely you do not hold a public official to a higher standard of truth when he signs under oath than when he signs under penalty of perjury?
Jim
Neither of those things are what happened here.
Re: buying guns for someone else
Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 9:39 am
by b322da
EEllis wrote:Neither of those things are what happened here.
I never intended to imply otherwise. I will admit to weighing in when the thread wandered off-topic.
Jim