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stroo wrote:Safeties and the Four Safety Rules are there because everyone has mental lapses. We all are imperfect. I like thumb safeties because they force me to take the safety off. If you feel safe without that and with a relatively light trigger, good for you, I don't.

The one thing about a Glock that I think is ridiculous is that you have to pull the trigger to disassemble the gun. While you should always unload a gun before dis-assembly, requiring the trigger to be pulled completely ignores that fact that everyone has lapses. That to me is a safety problem with the Glocks.

Requiring a dry fire to disassemble a glock could also be seen as a reminder to check if if the firearm is unloaded before disassembling it.

Javier730 wrote:

ShootDontTalk wrote:It wasn't your responsibility to check it, it was mine. How on earth can that be offensive to you?

Its offensive to anyone who doesnt want to give the antis more reason to try to pass stricter gun laws.

I must be speaking in a foreign language here. Is that what you think this is about?

Frankly, I find your post rather offensive. I'm not what's wrong with America...I work more than 50 hours a week, pay a huge amount of taxes, and take responsibility for myself and family in every aspect. I help my neighbors and play by the rules.

Possibly you read my post incorrectly.

Sounds to me like he took offense because I said he was the problem with America. I said there is a problem in America with people trying to shift responsibility onto others when something is their fault, and I again stated that it was my responsibility because I should have cleared the gun. Kind of a stretch to link that to stricter gun laws isn't it?

ShootDontTalk wrote:It was about me. If I had gotten shot, it would have been my fault. Understand?

If you had gotten shot or killed, you would the ammunition for the group of morons who says guns are dangerous, when in fact its peoples ignorance, to say the least, that gets them or others killed while handling firearms.

Well rest easy. Nobody got shot. I didn't bring up the subject of "dangerous Glocks." I brought up the reality that all guns are dangerous when handled by people who shouldn't be handling guns.

stroo wrote:Safeties and the Four Safety Rules are there because everyone has mental lapses. We all are imperfect. I like thumb safeties because they force me to take the safety off. If you feel safe without that and with a relatively light trigger, good for you, I don't.

The one thing about a Glock that I think is ridiculous is that you have to pull the trigger to disassemble the gun. While you should always unload a gun before dis-assembly, requiring the trigger to be pulled completely ignores that fact that everyone has lapses. That to me is a safety problem with the Glocks.

Some people need to think carefully about their posts, as some responses are mildly assaultive towards other members. When somebody admits a mistake, we talk about it, and learn from it. Those whom attack and harshly criticize those that talk honestly and openly need to stop. It is completely unacceptable, and is going to prevent others from coming forward with a learning experience due to fears of being picked and harassed.

Lets get along and get back to the topic.

Striker fired pistols are inherently unsafe. Send all such accidents waiting to happen to me for safe care and storage. You are welcome.

stroo wrote:Safeties and the Four Safety Rules are there because everyone has mental lapses. We all are imperfect. I like thumb safeties because they force me to take the safety off. If you feel safe without that and with a relatively light trigger, good for you, I don't.

The one thing about a Glock that I think is ridiculous is that you have to pull the trigger to disassemble the gun. While you should always unload a gun before dis-assembly, requiring the trigger to be pulled completely ignores that fact that everyone has lapses. That to me is a safety problem with the Glocks.

I agree that everyone may have mental lapses in areas of their lives that they may not consider important like meaning to get milk out of the fridge but getting the OJ instead. I totally disagree when it comes to something like a firearm. Improperly handling a firearm is not a mental lapse, it's pure negligence.
As far as breaking down a Glock, I don't know how everyone else does it but I couldn't possibly miss a round in the chamber as I pull the slide back and hold it in place before pulling the trigger to release the slide. IMHO, the argument that pulling the trigger to release the slide is dangerous simply doesn't hold water. That being said, the great thing about the firearm world is various platforms available provides just about everyone a firearm with the features they feel comfortable with.

gljjt wrote:Striker fired pistols are inherently unsafe. Send all such accidents waiting to happen to me for safe care and storage. You are welcome.

I've even considered offering a service that for a small fee one of my specialist would come to your home and remove any such dangers and dispose of them properly (an addition disposal fee would apply of course).

jmra wrote:

gljjt wrote:Striker fired pistols are inherently unsafe. Send all such accidents waiting to happen to me for safe care and storage. You are welcome.

I've even considered offering a service that for a small fee one of my specialist would come to your home and remove any such dangers and dispose of them properly (an addition disposal fee would apply of course).

I'll beat your offer and do it for free!

Charlies.Contingency wrote:

jmra wrote:

gljjt wrote:Striker fired pistols are inherently unsafe. Send all such accidents waiting to happen to me for safe care and storage. You are welcome.

I've even considered offering a service that for a small fee one of my specialist would come to your home and remove any such dangers and dispose of them properly (an addition disposal fee would apply of course).

I'll beat your offer and do it for free!

Come on man, we could go into business together and make a small fortune.

jmra wrote:

stroo wrote:Safeties and the Four Safety Rules are there because everyone has mental lapses. We all are imperfect. I like thumb safeties because they force me to take the safety off. If you feel safe without that and with a relatively light trigger, good for you, I don't.

The one thing about a Glock that I think is ridiculous is that you have to pull the trigger to disassemble the gun. While you should always unload a gun before dis-assembly, requiring the trigger to be pulled completely ignores that fact that everyone has lapses. That to me is a safety problem with the Glocks.

I agree that everyone may have mental lapses in areas of their lives that they may not consider important like meaning to get milk out of the fridge but getting the OJ instead. I totally disagree when it comes to something like a firearm. Improperly handling a firearm is not a mental lapse, it's pure negligence.
As far as breaking down a Glock, I don't know how everyone else does it but I couldn't possibly miss a round in the chamber as I pull the slide back and hold it in place before pulling the trigger to release the slide. IMHO, the argument that pulling the trigger to release the slide is dangerous simply doesn't hold water. That being said, the great thing about the firearm world is various platforms available provides just about everyone a firearm with the features they feel comfortable with.

JMRA,

Again, people are not perfect, not you and not me. And they do have mental lapses even on important things like handling guns and shooting cars. And yes we usually call that negligence. But the fact is it happens. And that is why we have the safety rules and safeties on guns. And even then people sometimes screw up. It is in our human nature.

Those mental lapses are why there is something called Glock leg.

If you think you are perfect, more power to you.

stroo wrote:JMRA,

Again, people are not perfect, not you and not me. And they do have mental lapses even on important things like handling guns and shooting cars. And yes we usually call that negligence. But the fact is it happens. And that is why we have the safety rules and safeties on guns. And even then people sometimes screw up. It is in our human nature.

Those mental lapses are why there is something called Glock leg.

If you think you are perfect, more power to you.

Perfection in gun safety is a very achievable goal. We will have to agree to disagree. As far as "Glock leg" goes, please show me the statistical evidence based on percentage of market share where people shoot themselves in the leg at a higher rate with a Glock than any other firearm.
BTW, who shoots cars? What does that even mean?

treadlightly wrote:Here's a tip, and you can ignore it without hurting my feelings.

I was in a Gander Mountain a while back and was struck by the obvious and mechanical way a salesperson cleared every pistol he touched, every time he touched it.

He established a good, correct grip on the firearm with his trigger finger firmly straight and indexed on the frame. With the muzzle in a safe direction he locked the slide and rotated the gun so he could look down through the magazine well. After about one second of observing the gun in that position, he rotated the muzzle down about 45 degrees so he could visually inspect the chamber. Both hands were involved, he really couldn't physically do anything distracting while performing his clearing routine.

With the act of clearing the firearm set as a dance move of several steps, I don't think I'll ever get distracted and fail to completely clear a pistol. If I am interrupted, I start over.

If I dump a round out of the chamber when I run the slide back, I still have my complete dance move to go. Lock the slide back, view the empty magazine well for a beat, rotate the muzzle down and view the chamber, ease the slide back into battery.

For my weak mind, standard procedures are the safest. In the past I just cleared the gun like a country boy and I was always safe. Now I clear the gun in a way some might say is a little foolish - but I'm on rails when I clear the gun. No accidental wrong turns.

For my peace of mind, as much as possible of gun handling is best done in rote fashion, with one's mind alert.

My practice is similar, except I add a physical chamber check by putting a finger into the chamber with the slide locked back to make sure I didn't fail to see a round.

I verify condition every time I pick a gun up. If I'm working on one on my bench, I still follow the clearing process every time I put it down and pick it up again. It takes very little effort, and it's pretty good assurance that a mental lapse won't result in an ND.

That's worked for me for over 40 years, so I'm sticking with it.

Even

JMRA:

Hey it was late last night when I posted that. I meant driving a car not shooting a car. A harmless mental lapse!

It may be that there are just a lot of Glocks out there, but why is there a term "Glock leg" and not one "1911 leg" or "Sig leg" or "Beretta leg" etc. So while the term may be overdone, there usually is an underlying reason. See: http://bearingarms.com/is-the-glock-inherently-unsafe/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. It is a pretty fair article stating the benefits of Glocks as well as the safety issues.

BTW on this whole topic see the following: http://www.policeone.com/police-product ... discharge/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

stroo wrote:JMRA:

Hey it was late last night when I posted that. I meant driving a car not shooting a car. A harmless mental lapse!

It may be that there are just a lot of Glocks out there, but why is there a term "Glock leg" and not one "1911 leg" or "Sig leg" or "Beretta leg" etc. So while the term may be overdone, there usually is an underlying reason. See: http://bearingarms.com/is-the-glock-inherently-unsafe/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. It is a pretty fair article stating the benefits of Glocks as well as the safety issues.

BTW on this whole topic see the following: http://www.policeone.com/police-product ... discharge/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'll give you my opinion as to why the term Glock leg exist. Glock's design was revolutionary and turned the market upside down. Traditionalist felt threatened and other manufacturers became nervous. A very strong bias was formed fueled by both those who despised the new comer with the plastic gun and those fueled by financial concerns. They would grasp any straw to bring down and destroy the reputation of the newcomer. IMHO Glock leg was just another one of the straws. I have seen videos of people shooting themselves in the leg with a Glock and I've seen videos of people shooting themselves in the leg with a 1911. What I haven't seen is any statistical evidence that one firearm was used in those shootings at a higher rate based on market share than any other design. And why do people still insist on using the term Glock leg when glocks design has been copied by all of the major manufacturers if it is not a specific biased aimed at glocks success? If someone shoots themselves in the leg with an M&P do we say M&P leg? No, in fact people don't even wait to find out what type of weapon was used before screaming Glock leg. That is the definition of bias and product bigotry.
I will relent in one area. When Glock first came on the scene many carried over their extremely bad habits of having their finger on the trigger of guns with manual safeties relying on the manual safety to prevent a premature discharge instead of their brain. This may have resulted in some NDs with glocks and firearms which copied glocks design. But this was and continues to be the fault of individuals who misused the design of firearms with manual safeties and carried over their bad habits. If someone has only driven a car with an automatic transmission and jumps into a car with a stick shift is it the fault of the manual transmission that they roll backwards when attempting to move forward from a stop on an incline or is it the fault of the driver? Does the inexperience or negligence of the driver make the design of the manual transmission flawed? No, I don't think so.